player control?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

And I believe it fits that description. It may be a light strike, but it's a strike.

Disagree. The rule clearly states that to be a kick the player must intentionally strike the ball with the leg or foot. Leg strikes ball.

The ball "striking" or otherwise contacting the leg (lightly or otherwise) is not a kick, absent a ruling to the contrary from NFHS.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Disagree. The rule clearly states that to be a kick the player must intentionally strike the ball with the leg or foot. Leg strikes ball.

The ball "striking" or otherwise contacting the leg (lightly or otherwise) is not a kick, absent a ruling to the contrary from NFHS.

I've stated my opinion - a player intentionally holding the ball between his/her legs has struck the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I've stated my opinion - a player intentionally holding the ball between his/her legs has struck the ball.

What would you have in my post #15 in this thread?

[Fritz]

I would suspect that additional replies will not change jwd's opinion, but I think there is insufficient detail in the OP to reasonably offer an interpretation. Possible scenarios:

1) loose ball and during scramble A1 secures the ball between his legs with his hands. Even though his hands are on the ball are you really going to call a kicking violation? I'm not.
2) similar to #1, A1 now takes his hands off the ball to signal for a TO; NOW you are going to call a kicking violation? That would be a tough sell in my opinion.
3) OK, how about A1 has the ball lodged between his legs during the scramble but is prevented from reaching his hands down to the ball because...........B1 is holding him? PF on B1 right?
4) Wait, how about this one............A1 is trying to secure the ball with his legs while laying on the floor and intentionally not use his hands? Yes, I could see that in this sitch, A1 would actually "intentionally strike" the ball in trying to secure the possession. In that case, I agree with jwd, kicking violation.

I am sure I missed a couple of other possibilities.............

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Possible scenarios:

1) loose ball and during scramble A1 secures the ball between his legs with his hands. Even though his hands are on the ball are you really going to call a kicking violation? I'm not.

have to see this one but if the player has hands on the ball they can control it that way, might not be a kick.

Originally Posted by Fritz

2) similar to #1, A1 now takes his hands off the ball to signal for a TO; NOW you are going to call a kicking violation? That would be a tough sell in my opinion.

How is this a tough sell?
Player is not required to signal time out -they can say it.
By allowing the player to hold the ball with the legs - which is not control - and signal time out, if you grant it you have given them an advantage. Clearly a kick.

Originally Posted by Fritz

3) OK, how about A1 has the ball lodged between his legs during the scramble but is prevented from reaching his hands down to the ball because...........B1 is holding him? PF on B1 right?

Which happened first? if the ball is between the players legs you may have a violation before you have a foul?

Originally Posted by Fritz

4) Wait, how about this one............A1 is trying to secure the ball with his legs while laying on the floor and intentionally not use his hands? Yes, I could see that in this sitch, A1 would actually "intentionally strike" the ball in trying to secure the possession. In that case, I agree with jwd, kicking violation.

Trying means intentional. so contact with the legs is would be a kick.

If you use your legs to try to control the ball it is a kick it isn't that hard.

[AKOFL]

My sit. was A1 dives on a loose ball, he lands on it chest first and is unable to get it with his hands. Momenum rools him across the top of the ball causing it to come to rest between his leggs, with him now on the floor on his chest. What are you going to allow him to do to prevent the kick ball violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

What are you going to allow him to do to prevent the kick ball violation.

Immediately release the ball.

[rlarry]

Just an observation about all the situations saying the ball gets lodged between the legs. If im doing a game and a ball gets lodged in any part of a players body, I'm getting another ball to throw at it hoping to dislodge it.

[Rodical]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

My sit. was A1 dives on a loose ball, he lands on it chest first and is unable to get it with his hands. Momenum rools him across the top of the ball causing it to come to rest between his leggs, with him now on the floor on his chest. What are you going to allow him to do to prevent the kick ball violation.

eject him for making a travesty of the game

[HawkeyeCubP]

This is another example of where the NCAA rules are clearer and better than NFHS rules, in my not-so-humble opinion. The game is not meant to be played (as I now put myself in the omnipotent position of the creator and all-knower of basketball) by intentionally contacting the ball with a leg, just like the game is not meant to be played by people laying or rolling around on the ground (wheelchairs excepted) - both clearly defined as illegal in NCAA, but legal (laying on the ground and causing a legally moving player to trip and go down) or ambiguous (leg vice not clearly equaling a kicking violation) in NFHS.

Self-righteous rant off.

[BktBallRef]

Okay. So if a women squeezes a man between her legs, she's striking him?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Okay. So if a women squeezes a man between her legs, she's striking him?

If you're in Hackensack, it sure is!!

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Okay. So if a women squeezes a man between her legs, she's striking him?

I am picturing someone gently holding a baby.....Is that person striking the baby????

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Okay. So if a women squeezes a man between her legs, she's striking him?

If he's lucky.

[AKOFL]

To have player control, one of the criteria is to be "holding" the ball. It does not say with the hands. Question? Can you "hold" the ball with your leggs?