Reaching in and over the back

[wbrown]

Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

Originally Posted by wbrown

There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker.

Control what you can control.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by wbrown

Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

From an announcing or fan view, they're describing what they saw, it doesn't bother me. For a fellow official to routinely use those terms when reporting a foul is dead wrong.

[wbrown]

How would you address them?

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by wbrown

How would you address them?

Well, you have several options, here.
1. ignore it, some of the older folks are not going to change,
2. ask the questions, "If a player REACHES IN and does not make contact with the dribbler's body, is that a foul?" or "If a player jumps over someone and does not make contact when gaining possession of the ball, is that a foul?" and try to guide them down the path of it must be some kind of contact (block, hold, push, etc.) to be a foul, or
3. send a note to your chapter indicating these two observations.

[wbrown]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Well, you have several options, here.
1. ignore it, some of the older folks are not going to change,
2. ask the questions, "If a player REACHES IN and does not make contact with the dribbler's body, is that a foul?" or "If a player jumps over someone and does not make contact when gaining possession of the ball, is that a foul?" and try to guide them down the path of it must be some kind of contact (block, hold, push, etc.) to be a foul, or
3. send a note to your chapter indicating these two observations.

Great suggestions. Thanks

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wbrown

Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

I'm sure if you just needle them a bit and give them your purls of knowledge, they'll get the point. You need to be careful they don't sock you in the mouth or booty you out of the group.

Seriously -- suggest to the "training group" that this be a topic in next year's pre-season meetings and/or volunteer to present the topic.

[Freddy]

An idea:
If you are ever designated as R on a game, I'd assume you are the one responsible for pre-game with your partner(s). Since you are then the one in charge, that's a good time to bring it up in reference to the game you're about to do. Say something like, "OK guys, two particular things I'd like to see us do well are . . . if someone pushes an opponent from behind, let's report it properly as a "push", not "over the back"; . . . and if someone makes contact when reaching in on an opponent, let'd all it according to its proper designation, "illegal use of hands". Okay?
If they object, up the ante and insist upon it for the game. You're the R. You've got that right.
In time, you'll get everybody you'd possibly work with to comply, ideally.
Works around here.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm sure if you just needle them a bit and give them your purls of knowledge, they'll get the point. You need to be careful they don't sock you in the mouth or booty you out of the group.

And, just as importantly, don't sweat(er) the small stuff. (Damn you, Bob...now you got me started.)

Are the people that announce these types of fouls making the call correctly? Iow, do they see contact and displacement from behind, but simply reporting the foul as "over-the-back"? If so, then I wouldn't be as worried about how they report it, as long as they understand the real reason for the foul. They might simply be communicating what is commonly understood in that area.

Communicating in the proper terms is a pet peeve on mine as well, but I would be more concerned if they perpetuate the myth of the "over-the-back" foul by making the wrong call, rather than making the correct call but simply saying the wrong thing.

Just follow the pattern in your area, and don't let the little stuff throw you for a loop. Keep checking in here; I know this site keeps me in stiches.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by wbrown

How would you address them?

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't address them until I had been a part of the association for a while and gained some credibility with them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refnrev

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't address them until I had been a part of the association for a while and gained some credibility with them.

Exactly.