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-   -   Reaching in and over the back (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51113-reaching-over-back.html)

wbrown Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:34am

Reaching in and over the back
 
Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

Ch1town Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown (Post 571138)
There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker.

Control what you can control.

fullor30 Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown (Post 571138)
Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

From an announcing or fan view, they're describing what they saw, it doesn't bother me. For a fellow official to routinely use those terms when reporting a foul is dead wrong.

wbrown Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:44am

How would you address them?

CMHCoachNRef Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown (Post 571143)
How would you address them?

Well, you have several options, here.
1. ignore it, some of the older folks are not going to change,
2. ask the questions, "If a player REACHES IN and does not make contact with the dribbler's body, is that a foul?" or "If a player jumps over someone and does not make contact when gaining possession of the ball, is that a foul?" and try to guide them down the path of it must be some kind of contact (block, hold, push, etc.) to be a foul, or
3. send a note to your chapter indicating these two observations.

wbrown Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 571149)
Well, you have several options, here.
1. ignore it, some of the older folks are not going to change,
2. ask the questions, "If a player REACHES IN and does not make contact with the dribbler's body, is that a foul?" or "If a player jumps over someone and does not make contact when gaining possession of the ball, is that a foul?" and try to guide them down the path of it must be some kind of contact (block, hold, push, etc.) to be a foul, or
3. send a note to your chapter indicating these two observations.

Great suggestions. Thanks

bob jenkins Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown (Post 571138)
Looking for help on this. I have two pet peeves. There are guys in my chapter that still call "reaching in" and "over the back". Being new in my chapter I don't know how to bring it up without looking like a knit picker. It drive me crazy when I here a fellow referee call these. It also drives me crazy when announcers on TV say it. I know I can't fix TV but I would like to address it with my fellow officials.

I'm sure if you just needle them a bit and give them your purls of knowledge, they'll get the point. You need to be careful they don't sock you in the mouth or booty you out of the group.

Seriously -- suggest to the "training group" that this be a topic in next year's pre-season meetings and/or volunteer to present the topic.

Freddy Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:52pm

Solving Stupid Officiating Malaprops
 
An idea:
If you are ever designated as R on a game, I'd assume you are the one responsible for pre-game with your partner(s). Since you are then the one in charge, that's a good time to bring it up in reference to the game you're about to do. Say something like, "OK guys, two particular things I'd like to see us do well are . . . if someone pushes an opponent from behind, let's report it properly as a "push", not "over the back"; . . . and if someone makes contact when reaching in on an opponent, let'd all it according to its proper designation, "illegal use of hands". Okay?
If they object, up the ante and insist upon it for the game. You're the R. You've got that right.
In time, you'll get everybody you'd possibly work with to comply, ideally.
Works around here.

M&M Guy Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 571247)
I'm sure if you just needle them a bit and give them your purls of knowledge, they'll get the point. You need to be careful they don't sock you in the mouth or booty you out of the group.

And, just as importantly, don't sweat(er) the small stuff. (Damn you, Bob...now you got me started.)

Are the people that announce these types of fouls making the call correctly? Iow, do they see contact and displacement from behind, but simply reporting the foul as "over-the-back"? If so, then I wouldn't be as worried about how they report it, as long as they understand the real reason for the foul. They might simply be communicating what is commonly understood in that area.

Communicating in the proper terms is a pet peeve on mine as well, but I would be more concerned if they perpetuate the myth of the "over-the-back" foul by making the wrong call, rather than making the correct call but simply saying the wrong thing.

Just follow the pattern in your area, and don't let the little stuff throw you for a loop. Keep checking in here; I know this site keeps me in stiches.

refnrev Thu Jan 22, 2009 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown (Post 571143)
How would you address them?

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't address them until I had been a part of the association for a while and gained some credibility with them.

Adam Thu Jan 22, 2009 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev (Post 571308)
If I were in your shoes I wouldn't address them until I had been a part of the association for a while and gained some credibility with them.

Exactly.


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