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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 12:00am
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I Think I Kicked It

A1 has possession in the front court. Tries to pass over the defender. B1 bats the ball back towards midcourt. A1 goes to retrieve and crosses the division line. However, the ball last bounced in the FC and never bounced in the BC. A1 caught it while standing in the BC before it bounced in the BC.

I let it go and immediately questioned my call.

I'm pretty sure I should have had a violation. I seem to remember a post about an interp about this type of case.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 12:08am
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Difference between the current rule and an NFHS interp.

See this thread: By unilateral decree...
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 12:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
A1 has possession in the front court. Tries to pass over the defender. B1 bats the ball back towards midcourt. A1 goes to retrieve and crosses the division line. However, the ball last bounced in the FC and never bounced in the BC. A1 caught it while standing in the BC before it bounced in the BC.

I let it go and immediately questioned my call.

I'm pretty sure I should have had a violation. I seem to remember a post about an interp about this type of case.
According to last year's NFHS Interpretations, this is a violation.

SITUATION 10: A1, in the team's frontcourt, passes to A2, also in the team's frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A's backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A's frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A's backcourt, but never having touched in Team A's backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A's backcourt.

RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1; 4-4-3; 9-9-1)
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 03:49am
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The old discussion looks lengthy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
According to last year's NFHS Interpretations, this is a violation.

SITUATION 10: A1, in the team's frontcourt, passes to A2, also in the team's frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A's backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A's frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A's backcourt, but never having touched in Team A's backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A's backcourt.

RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation. (4-4-1; 4-4-3; 9-9-1)
...and I didn't read past the first couple of posts, but the ruling makes sense based on the "three-points" (two feet and the ball) concept.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 04:32am
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three points only applies to the dribbler. If ball has FC status, your team is in control and you are first to touch in BC without the ball gaining BC status first, its a violation. In the OP, Team A is in control, ball has FC status (last touches floor in FC), and A2 first to touch in BC.

Last edited by shishstripes; Thu Jan 22, 2009 at 04:37am.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 07:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shishstripes View Post
three points only applies to the dribbler. If ball has FC status, your team is in control and you are first to touch in BC without the ball gaining BC status first, its a violation. In the OP, Team A is in control, ball has FC status (last touches floor in FC), and A2 first to touch in BC.
And that's the rub: the traditional interp of the rule requires that A be last to touch the ball in the FC. The new interp does not require that.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 07:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
A1 has possession in the front court. Tries to pass over the defender. B1 bats the ball back towards midcourt. A1 goes to retrieve and crosses the division line. However, the ball last bounced in the FC and never bounced in the BC. A1 caught it while standing in the BC before it bounced in the BC.

I let it go and immediately questioned my call.

I'm pretty sure I should have had a violation. I seem to remember a post about an interp about this type of case.
Spence,
While the interpretation (that Nevadaref truly loves ) indicates that you kicked it, I would be willing to bet that NO ONE in the GYM thought you missed it.

Just another situation in which NOT following a rule or interp provides better game management. Had you called the violation, you and your partner(s) would have spent 45 seconds explaining it to the coach and he (and all of the rest of the people in the gym) would have still thought you were wrong.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 09:42am
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It is impossible for a single act to occur at two separate points in time.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 09:54am
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It is impossible for a single act to occur at two separate points in time.
And in other news, Stephen Hawking will be stepping down from his post as Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge in 2009.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 10:32am
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Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef View Post
Spence,
While the interpretation (that Nevadaref truly loves ) indicates that you kicked it, I would be willing to bet that NO ONE in the GYM thought you missed it.

Just another situation in which NOT following a rule or interp provides better game management. Had you called the violation, you and your partner(s) would have spent 45 seconds explaining it to the coach and he (and all of the rest of the people in the gym) would have still thought you were wrong.
So you wouldn't call it?
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 10:55am
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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
So you wouldn't call it?
I wouldn't.

I had it, and passed on it.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 11:16am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I assume the "before it went to the backcourt" portion of the rule is the sticking point?
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 11:24am
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Originally Posted by Spence View Post
I assume the "before it went to the backcourt" portion of the rule is the sticking point?
Yes.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 04:12pm
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Not to dive back into the question, but isn't the interp consistent with an A player standing out of bounds who is hit by a ball deflected out of bounds by B, but not touching OOB until it strikes A?

Even though B sent it out of bounds, it is still off of A. But if touches OOB BEFORE it hits A, then it is off of B.

Why isn't this the same thing?

The interp, to me, seems consistent, even if it is not really intuitive. The ball had FC status until it was touched by A, which made it have BC status, and hence we have a over and back, since A had team control the entire time.
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Old Thu Jan 22, 2009, 04:14pm
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Originally Posted by Berkut View Post
Not to dive back into the question, but isn't the interp consistent with an A player standing out of bounds who is hit by a ball deflected out of bounds by B, but not touching OOB until it strikes A?

Even though B sent it out of bounds, it is still off of A. But if touches OOB BEFORE it hits A, then it is off of B.

Why isn't this the same thing?

The interp, to me, seems consistent, even if it is not really intuitive. The ball had FC status until it was touched by A, which made it have BC status, and hence we have a over and back, since A had team control the entire time.
Oh my, please don't get them started...
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