First Time Ever - T to start game

[ranjo]

Happened in a JV boys game last night -

As my partner and I go over to meet and greet the visiting coach, he is at the table and his scorer is erasing something in the book. We ask what he is doing, and he explains that he is changing his starters. We tell him that if he does that, it is a technical foul as is is way past the 10 minute mark. He responds with "Then just give us the technical because there's no way these guys are starting". He then asks if it is charged to him or just to the team and we tell him it is only a team foul and he still has use of his box.

We inform the home coach we are starting the game with a technical foul and then the visiting varsity coach comes over to tell us that its not right to start the game that way - That it had happened before this season and the officials let it go. We don't buy into his story and tell him two wrongs don't make a right.

So instead of a jump ball at center court, we award two free throws to the home team, give them the ball for a throw-in, set the arrow to the visitors, and continue the game.

Its one of those things you read about, but in all these years it is the first time I have seen or had it actually happen. You can only imagine how perplexed the spectators were, trying to figure out what was going on. I think all of us missed the anticipation of the jump ball going up!

How many of you have actually started with a technical for anything other than dunking in warm-ups?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ranjo

How many of you have actually started with a technical for anything other than dunking in warm-ups?

Had it last night also. Didn't have starters in the book, and no one out on the court warming up - they went to their locker room before we came out and weren't back before we left at 10:00. No biggie - they messed up. This was in an NCAA game, so we shot the two shots and then still got to toss it up.

[Scrapper1]

I've had it happen. Coach gave the wrong jersey numbers to the scorer. Had to change the whole roster when the team came out for the jump. Oh well.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Had it last night also. Didn't have starters in the book, and no one out on the court warming up - they went to their locker room before we came out and weren't back before we left at 10:00. No biggie - they messed up. This was in an NCAA game, so we shot the two shots and then still got to toss it up.

I wish you were the official at a game I was at a few years back. NCAA-W. Visiting team leaves the floor at ~12 minutes to go and visiting coach never gives her starting 5. Team returns to the floor with 5 mins to go and she finally gives tsarters and tells the table it's their job to go get her in the locker room if she hasn't given them starters. She got no T.

###

When I was in college, we got a T to start the game because in the previous game, we had a player not play for whaetever reason, and I had copied our lineup from the sheet without him. and given that to the home scorer. One of my firends played for the opponent and he still teases me about that. :P

[Nevadaref]

Yes, I had a game in which a starter was wearing 00, but was listed as 0.

I wrote a thread about it on here and it generated quite a response.

0 or 00

[agr8zebra]

I have started atleast a game a year with FT's, Once for dunking.

We as officials just have to treat T's as just another foul, it is no big deal, especially to start a game. If more officials would give a T when it is warranted instead of talking or warning until certain activities would soon cease to occur.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, I had a game in which a starter was wearing 00, but was listed as 0.

I wrote a thread about it on here and it generated quite a response.

0 or 00

And you are still wrong.

There are three kinds of mathematicians in the world: Those that can count and those that can't.

--Rich (BS, Mathematics)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ranjo

We tell him that if he does that, it is a technical foul as is is way past the 10 minute mark. He responds with "Then just give us the technical because there's no way these guys are starting".

His response would lead me to a follow-up question: did he provide a correct roster to the scorekeeper, who misidentified the starters when entering the players in the book?

If so, then the T would not have been correct.

[ranjo]

Originally Posted by mbyron

His response would lead me to a follow-up question: did he provide a correct roster to the scorekeeper, who misidentified the starters when entering the players in the book?

Nope!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by ranjo

How many of you have actually started with a technical for anything other than dunking in warm-ups?

I had one game in which I ejected both head coaches before the game began for looking at me cross-eyed. The assistant coaches were also tossed just because I felt like it, so we couldn't play the game. There was a really good show on TV that night and my DVR was already full.

BTW - I once started with a technical for pre-game dunking in a 3rd grade girls game. And if you believe that, you're probably betting on the Lions to win the Super Bowl.

Also, can you tell I lost my meds?

[Man In Blue]

Originally Posted by ranjo

Happened in a JV boys game last night -

As my partner and I go over to meet and greet the visiting coach, he is at the table and his scorer is erasing something in the book. We ask what he is doing, and he explains that he is changing his starters. We tell him that if he does that, it is a technical foul as is is way past the 10 minute mark. He responds with "Then just give us the technical because there's no way these guys are starting". He then asks if it is charged to him or just to the team and we tell him it is only a team foul and he still has use of his box.

We inform the home coach we are starting the game with a technical foul and then the visiting varsity coach comes over to tell us that its not right to start the game that way - That it had happened before this season and the officials let it go. We don't buy into his story and tell him two wrongs don't make a right.

So instead of a jump ball at center court, we award two free throws to the home team, give them the ball for a throw-in, set the arrow to the visitors, and continue the game.

Its one of those things you read about, but in all these years it is the first time I have seen or had it actually happen. You can only imagine how perplexed the spectators were, trying to figure out what was going on. I think all of us missed the anticipation of the jump ball going up!

How many of you have actually started with a technical for anything other than dunking in warm-ups?

Are you sure this is how you want to handle a JV game? I am a by the book kind of guy but this seems excessive to me. Especially if the coach wants to change starters to send a message to his team.

Varsity game I am all over this and access the T. Sub-varsity I am asking coach what's up?

In my part of the world sub-varsity is about getting kids on the court. Often there are different uniforms, possibly 2 number 5's etc. As long as the coach explains what is happening there should be a little slack.

I am not saying that I would pass on playing rules, etc but fashion police can take a back seat for common sense.

Besides what advantage did the coach gain?

[refnrev]

[QUOTE=ranjo;569925]Happened in a JV boys game last night -

JV game I'm not starting with the T. Let them fix it quickly and let it go. V game, nail him, but that's just me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

Are you sure this is how you want to handle a JV game? I am a by the book kind of guy but this seems excessive to me. Especially if the coach wants to change starters to send a message to his team.

Varsity game I am all over this and access the T. Sub-varsity I am asking coach what's up?

In my part of the world sub-varsity is about getting kids on the court. Often there are different uniforms, possibly 2 number 5's etc. As long as the coach explains what is happening there should be a little slack.

I am not saying that I would pass on playing rules, etc but fashion police can take a back seat for common sense.

And in Ranjo's game the JV coach had no problem with accepting the consequences of his actions. It only became a problem when the Varsity coach stuck his nose in where it didn't belong.

Besides what advantage did the coach gain?

In Ranjo's world JV basketball is very well organized and they are expected to follow the same rules as varsity. The VHSL does however allow an exception for the "home team must wear white" rule.

And when a coach changes his starters after the 10 minute mark we are now suppose to let it go if he is doing it to "send his team a message"?

[Man In Blue]

What is the intent of the rule?

I think it to stop coaches from making changes on starters up to the start of the game. A coach would be looking to find the best match ups. The rule also eliminates confusion at the table to start the game.

Again it maybe different parts of the country but here there is a big difference between varsity and sub-varsity.

[Scratch85]

[QUOTE=refnrev;570090]

Originally Posted by ranjo

Happened in a JV boys game last night -

JV game I'm not starting with the T. Let them fix it quickly and let it go. V game, nail him, but that's just me.

I try to treat JV games just like I do V games. Below that, I make a few exceptions. 99% of JV games are right before the V game, with V coaches on the bench and some players who will be participatiing in both games. I do not want to send mixed messages.

I also believe that intentionally not applying rules is a great way to forget how to apply those rules.