You make the call - newbies especially invited to participate

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This happened in my game last night. A1 in backcourt with the ball. He passes to A2 who is facing him, standing on the division line with part of both shoes in the backcourt, part on the line and part in the frontcourt (he had big feet, OK?). A2 catches the ball and, without moving his feet, passes the ball back to A1 who is still in the backcourt.

Is this a violation?

Did either of them hit the ball with her pigtails?

No.

Not to digress too much, but now what if Mr. Big Feet catches the pass and starts dribbling parallel to the division line, feet in the forecourt, ball bouncing up and down in the backcourt/on the line? (Almost kind of reminds of the old one: Can you tell me if my turn signal is working? OK -- yes, no, yes, no ...)

[deecee]

all 3 points have to be frontcourt -- the player can still go to the backcourt and it not be a violation since the ball never made it to the front court with the player.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by deecee

all 3 points have to be frontcourt -- the player can still go to the backcourt and it not be a violation since the ball never made it to the front court with the player.

Using the 3-point thingy as a guideline is confusing. That rule only applies on a dribble from the bc to the fc, and in no way is applicable to this sitch. The question is, does the ball have fc status or bc status when A2 catches it? Since A2 has bc status, so does the ball. End of discussion.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

Using the 3-point thingy as a guideline is confusing. That rule only applies on a dribble from the bc to the fc, and in no way is applicable to this sitch. The question is, does the ball have fc status or bc status when A2 catches it? Since A2 has bc status, so does the ball. End of discussion.

Julie,

I was responding to the post that was right before mine. See Amesman's previous post.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by deecee

Julie,

I was responding to the post that was right before mine. See Amesman's previous post.

Okay, I see. but you responded wrong. If he catches ball with his feet in the fc, and then dribbles in the bc, it's a violation, right? What am I missing?

[Mark Padgett]

Juulie - did you get my email yesterday? If not, that would be lame. (inside joke, guys)

[jeschmit]

I would say it isn't a BC violation as he still has the right to be in the BC since both of his feet still obtain some of the backcourt floor. I'm thinking of this in terms of what if he started dribbling and moved into the BC and thus removed his big feed from the division line. I would not call a violation then, so I would not call a violation if he passed the ball back without dribbling.

Is there a trick answer to this? Because it seems like there might be...

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Juulie - did you get my email yesterday? If not, that would be lame. (inside joke, guys)

Yea. I got it. Yup, lame!

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Did either of them hit the ball with her pigtails?

No.

Not to digress too much, but now what if Mr. Big Feet catches the pass and starts dribbling parallel to the division line, feet in the forecourt, ball bouncing up and down in the backcourt/on the line? (Almost kind of reminds of the old one: Can you tell me if my turn signal is working? OK -- yes, no, yes, no ...)

To clarify my question a bit here, we have the same sitch as Mark posed in the OP (ball caught with feet on division line) and dribble starts.

BUT then player dribbles parallel to division line -- feet in forecourt but ball bouncing in back court. Does he establish himself in forecourt when the ball leaves the backcourt floor on a dribble? Or is he still backcourt until the ball is actually bounced in the forecourt?

What if he's dribbling like that and simply picks up his dribble -- still never having had it land in the forecourt -- does that change your answer?

[mbyron]

Suppose player catches ball with a foot in BC and begins to dribble. Now the "3-point" part of the rule goes in to effect: he's a dribbler in the BC, so both feet and the ball must be in FC for him to have FC status.

Put the point differently: if a player catches the ball, then the ball has the same status as the player (BC in your question). The ball can gain FC status without a dribble, if, for instance, a player is straddling the line and pivots into the FC (even just picking up the BC foot would do it). If a player with BC status begins to dribble with the ball or either foot in the BC, the ball still has BC status.

Keep the 10-second BC count going during all of the action you describe.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Amesman

To clarify my question a bit here, we have the same sitch as Mark posed in the OP (ball caught with feet on division line) and dribble starts.

BUT then player dribbles parallel to division line -- feet in forecourt but ball bouncing in back court. Does he establish himself in forecourt when the ball leaves the backcourt floor on a dribble? Or is he still backcourt until the ball is actually bounced in the forecourt?

What if he's dribbling like that and simply picks up his dribble -- still never having had it land in the forecourt -- does that change your answer?

If his feet are on the division line when he starts dribbling, then the 3 point guideline is in play. If his feet were in the FC when he caught the ball, 3 points do not matter.

Now, let's say he starts dribbling with his feet on the line and the ball bouncing in the BC. While dribbling, he moves his feet to the FC but the ball continues bouncing in the BC. Once he picks up his dribble, he has ended the three points issue, and now has FC status.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now, let's say he starts dribbling with his feet on the line and the ball bouncing in the BC. While dribbling, he moves his feet to the FC but the ball continues bouncing in the BC. Once he picks up his dribble, he has ended the three points issue, and now has FC status.

THAT is the scenario I was (so pathetically) trying to describe. Thanks

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Amesman

To clarify my question a bit here, we have the same sitch as Mark posed in the OP (ball caught with feet on division line) and dribble starts.

BUT then player dribbles parallel to division line -- feet in forecourt but ball bouncing in back court. Does he establish himself in forecourt when the ball leaves the backcourt floor on a dribble? Or is he still backcourt until the ball is actually bounced in the forecourt?

What if he's dribbling like that and simply picks up his dribble -- still never having had it land in the forecourt -- does that change your answer?

Ah, I see now. I didn't realize you were saying that he caught the ball with feet on the division line as in the OP. Deecee is correct,then. Three points applies.