Late Game Fouling

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As demonstrated by my last post that "pro philosophy" is in direct opposition to what the NFHS desires.

In reality, it amounts to nothing more than cheating for the trailing team. The other team has worked hard to obtain the lead near the end of the game, but instead of now making them meet the burden of committing a legitimate foul in a proper manner to meet their strategic need, you advocate aiding their cause to catch up by greatly lowering the criteria for a foul at this point of the contest.

Pro philosophy? Hardly

"Basketball is basketball" - Al Batistta

I respect the GAME too much to "cheat" for anyone! I only use approved mechanics & apply the rules that IAABO wants us to follow for HS games.

That being said, in a end of game sitch with Team A passing the ball around to avoid being fouled & Team B fouls someone w/out the ball... (of course) intentional foul.
B1 contacts A1 (with the ball)... quick common foul.

I'm sure we're all passing on marginal east/west contact throughout the game, but EOG is different as the Feds acknowledge that fouling is an approved strategy.

I agree, that a foul/violation in Q1-3 is the same in Q4, on the other hand in Q1-3 the players probably AREN'T trying to foul... Q4 they ARE & officials who have a feel for the game recognizes that & obliges. The official who doesn't oblige the slight contact will often have intentional fouls in their ballgames & perception could be that he/she is ready to go & doesn't want the clock to stop.

Officiating is an art that some people get & others don't/won't.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Pro philosophy? Hardly

"Basketball is basketball" - Al Batistta

I respect the GAME too much to "cheat" for anyone! I only use approved mechanics & apply the rules that IAABO wants us to follow for HS games.

That being said, in a end of game sitch with Team A passing the ball around to avoid being fouled & Team B fouls someone w/out the ball... (of course) intentional foul.
B1 contacts A1 (with the ball)... quick common foul.

I'm sure we're all passing on marginal east/west contact throughout the game, but EOG is different as the Feds acknowledge that fouling is an approved strategy.

I agree, that a foul/violation in Q1-3 is the same in Q4, on the other hand in Q1-3 the players probably AREN'T trying to foul... Q4 they ARE & officials who have a feel for the game recognizes that & obliges. The official who doesn't oblige the slight contact will often have intentional fouls in their ballgames & perception could be that he/she is ready to go & doesn't want the clock to stop.

Officiating is an art that some people get & others don't/won't.

"Feel for the game" that's what i was looking for...

Good post

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

I'm sure we're all passing on marginal east/west contact throughout the game, but EOG is different as the Feds acknowledge that fouling is an approved strategy.

The key word is "fouling", not "contact". If you go back and check why the Fed. made that statement, it is in regards to changing philosophy from fouling on purpose at the end of a game should be considered intentional, to fouling at the end of a game is an approved strategy that is part of the game, and it is not intentional just because it's on purpose.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

The official who doesn't oblige the slight contact will often have intentional fouls in their ballgames & perception could be that he/she is ready to go & doesn't want the clock to stop.

Again, the key words are in red. If that slight contact was not judged to be a foul in the 2nd quarter, how can it be a foul in the 4th?

If you go back to Rich's article, he said the officials missed two foul calls, before getting the 3rd. There is a chance that was a case of the officials not being mentally ready at the end of the game, knowing the situation, knowing that the team that was behind will be trying to foul, and therefore being in position to see the first two fouls before the 3rd one happened. Perhaps you are right - they weren't ready to go and just wanted the clock to run. We won't know. But I'm not going to blow the whistle at "slight contact", because I feel that gives the perception the official is being lazy and no longer using their judgement to differentiate between incidental contact and contact that is a foul. They are being lazy by just giving in to any contact. And that is just as bad.

Our antenna should be up at the end of these types of games. We should absolutely be ready to know the score, know the fouls, know the situation. We should be ready to make those same judgements about incidental contact vs. foul, and we should be ready to make them more often, and in different situations than we had earlier in the game. If a team misses their first couple foul attempts, and they end up doing something harder, then we should be ready to make that intentional or flagrant call. It's not our job to accomodate what one team or the other wants to do, it is our job to react to what actually happens. That is not the time to get lazy and simply turn off our judgement because we know what the other team wants to do.

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Officiating is an art that some people get & others don't/won't.

Agreed. I think we all are trying to master that art. A good feel for the game is knowing what can and might happen, and putting yourself in the best position to make the calls that happen (or don't happen).

M&M I understand where you're coming from, good points!

[vbzebra]

I had a game where B2 was trying to foul late in the game to stop the clock and whiffed, then proceeded to do his best Damien McIntosh impersonation on his 2nd attempt at fouling.

YouTube - KC chiefs Tackle McIntosh Pancakes two Miami Dolphins! (week 16)

Had to call an intentional on that one. Still think A1 went farther than the ball did after getting "fouled"

[Adam]

Could that have been flagrant?

[cardinalfan]

I say just leave the rules as they are. Any time the Federation tries to help one of these situations, it seems like it just ends up more confusing.

I agree with BillyMac on this one. I'll be quick on the whistle to keep a kid from getting fouled too hard, and I've called a few intentional fouls when the player doesn't make a play on the ball.

One thing I've noticed around here is that the higher the level, the easier late game situations are to call. The smaller schools seem to continue to foul until they make a 2-point game a 15-point defeat, which takes about 10 extra minutes. The bigger schools realize when they're beat and let the other team dribble the clock out.