Intentional foul

[Clark Kent]

I had a situation in a game the other day that I would like some feedback of opinions on how we handled it.

A1 rebounded a missed shot and B1 slaps at the ball and hits A1 on the arm, the whistle blows and then A1 not liking the hit on the arm retaliates with a forearm/shoulder to B1. I'm 30 feet away from it all and it all happens in front of my partner, so as he is coming to the table he tells me what he has. He initially has a foul on B1 and then an "intentional" foul on A1.

I now realize that my first mistake was allowing my partner to call it an "intentional foul" and not a technical foul because it would have made it easier

So this is what we did....We gave both A1 and B1 fouls, then put B1 on the line to shot 2 free throws for the intentional foul and then went POI and gave the ball back to A because they had the ball when it all started.

Any thoughts?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I had a situation in a game the other day that I would like some feedback of opinions on how we handled it.

A1 rebounded a missed shot and B1 slaps at the ball and hits A1 on the arm, the whistle blows and then A1 not liking the hit on the arm retaliates with a forearm/shoulder to B1. I'm 30 feet away from it all and it all happens in front of my partner, so as he is coming to the table he tells me what he has. He initially has a foul on B1 and then an "intentional" foul on A1.

I now realize that my first mistake was allowing my partner to call it an "intentional foul" and not a technical foul because it would have made it easier

So this is what we did....We gave both A1 and B1 fouls, then put B1 on the line to shot 2 free throws for the intentional foul and then went POI and gave the ball back to A because they had the ball when it all started.

Any thoughts?

Clark:

Per NFHS Rules you did not handle it correctly.

This play is a classic definition of a false double foul.

1) The first foul is the common foul by B1 against A1. B1's foul caused the ball to become dead the clock to stop.

2) A1's contact with B1 is a technical foul because it is a contact foul while the ball was dead (the personal foul exceptions do not apply to your situation. A1's foul is the second foul in the false double foul.

3) When a false double foul occurs each foul is charged an penalized in the order that they occured and the ball is put into play as if the last foul in the false double foul was the only foul committed.

4) If Team A was in the bonus then A1 would shoot his free throws with no players lined up on the free throw lane.

5) Whether Team A was in the bonus or not the next thing would that anybody including incoming substitutes will shoot the TF free throws (the penalty for A1's TF) and then Team B would receive a throw-in at the division line opposite the Scorer's/Timer's Table.

6) You were correct is stating that A1's foul was as TF, but it could still be an "intentional" foul because TF's can be intentional but since part of the penalty for all (intentional, flagrant, or neither intentional nor flagrant) TF's is two free throws, declaring a TF to be "intentional" is meaningless.

False double fouls are not easy, because the amount of dead ball time that occurs from the time the first foul is committed and the time the ball is finally put back into play after the penalty for the last foul has been imposed. But doing it correctly and good dead ball management is what is important as well as communication with your partner(s).

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I had a situation in a game the other day that I would like some feedback of opinions on how we handled it.

A1 rebounded a missed shot and B1 slaps at the ball and hits A1 on the arm, the whistle blows and then A1 not liking the hit on the arm retaliates with a forearm/shoulder to B1. I'm 30 feet away from it all and it all happens in front of my partner, so as he is coming to the table he tells me what he has. He initially has a foul on B1 and then an "intentional" foul on A1.

I now realize that my first mistake was allowing my partner to call it an "intentional foul" and not a technical foul because it would have made it easier

So this is what we did....We gave both A1 and B1 fouls, then put B1 on the line to shot 2 free throws for the intentional foul and then went POI and gave the ball back to A because they had the ball when it all started.

Any thoughts?

What you have is a false double foul. Personal foul on B1 and technical foul on A1. Issue the penalties according the rule book: A1 gets the bonus if applicable, lane cleared. If A1 is DQ'd as a result of the T, A1's substitute shoots the bonus FTs. Any B player shoots 2 for the T, lane cleared.

For some reason, you didn't stick with the T and instead went with the INT. I think that was a mistake. But if you had a brain fart, so be it. The only difference between the two is the throw-in spot and the fact that a T was not recorded for DQ purposes.

But I think you made a second mistake by going to the POI when the penalty clearly states otherwise. B should have ended with possession - so you took a possession away from B.

I think the biggest hiccup is, though, that during the game, you knew better, and didn't say anything.

[Texas Aggie]

then put B1 on the line to shot 2 free throws for the intentional foul and then went POI

I'm assuming this is HS, and even if you call it an intentional personal rather than intentional technical (which would have been correct), you don't go to POI. The only real difference in administration is that the ball should be put at the division line for B's throw in rather than at the spot of the foul (if intentional personal). The other implication here is that if you correctly ruled a technical, and the player were to receive another T, he would be disqualified.

Its important that you get these plays correct. Read the rules carefully. This isn't one of the more confusing situations that come up in basketball. I realize in the heat of the moment we all forget some basic stuff, but SLOW DOWN.

[Clark Kent]

Thanks guys....that is exactly what I was looking for. I appreciate that!

-Clark

[mutantducky]

staying somewhat on topic

has anyone called a intentional or a flagrant foul on an illegal screen. I suppose putting up an elbow or doing something malicious you could get a flagrant. But an intentional? I don't think I've seen that even with really violent screens. Player could be trying to set a screen and do it too late causing a hard foul for a illegal screen. Maybe an intentional there

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

staying somewhat on topic

has anyone called a intentional or a flagrant foul on an illegal screen. I suppose putting up an elbow or doing something malicious you could get a flagrant. But an intentional? I don't think I've seen that even with really violent screens. Player could be trying to set a screen and do it too late causing a hard foul for a illegal screen. Maybe an intentional there

Yes, I've had a player retaliate for an illegal screen on the other end by putting a little shoulder into the previous offender. We got together, got the call right (in my opinion), and called it intentional.

-Josh

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I'm assuming this is HS, and even if you call it an intentional personal rather than intentional technical (which would have been correct), you don't go to POI. The only real difference in administration is that the ball should be put at the division line for B's throw in rather than at the spot of the foul (if intentional personal). The other implication here is that if you correctly ruled a technical, and the player were to receive another T, he would be disqualified.

Its important that you get these plays correct. Read the rules carefully. This isn't one of the more confusing situations that come up in basketball. I realize in the heat of the moment we all forget some basic stuff, but SLOW DOWN.

The other difference is that if you properly rule this a technical, any player from the offended team can shoot the free throws. If you rule it an intentional, the player he pushed (or hit) must shoot the shots.

[jevaque]

What would you do if A1 is driving to the basket jumps for a dunks B1 fouls him, and then A1 charges into B2 for a player control foul and the basket goes in?????????????????????

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by jevaque

What would you do if A1 is driving to the basket jumps for a dunks B1 fouls him, and then A1 charges into B2 for a player control foul and the basket goes in?????????????????????

Your post is a little convoluted but I believe the answer is found in the casebook 4.19.9 sitch A

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jevaque

What would you do if A1 is driving to the basket jumps for a dunks B1 fouls him, and then A1 charges into B2 for a player control foul and the basket goes in?????????????????????

I've called this one once before; it was a layup and not a dunk.

B2 has roots, and A1 isn't changing direction. However, B1 reaches in and slaps A1's arms even before the release. Tweet. See the foul on A1: verbalize and signal "no basket", and 2 shots. Report both fouls. Award two shots to A1.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jevaque

What would you do if A1 is driving to the basket jumps for a dunks B1 fouls him, and then A1 charges into B2 for a player control foul and the basket goes in?????????????????????

By being patient and seeing the whole play, I'm may, if A1 plows over B2, determine that B1 gained no advantage by the contact and will not deem that a foul. If B1's contact was substantial, I'll decided that B1's contact is what caused the subsequent contact and will only call the foul on B1.