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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 06:22pm
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Question Foul, Rebounders while try in air.

Hi everybody, I ref an intramural league that plays by NCAA rules and another league by NFHS rules so if anybody could help me out with rulings under both rules it would be greatly appreciated.

A1 shoots a jumper. While the try is in the air, B1 pushes A2 in the back.

1. What is the ruling if the try is good? I awarded A2 one free throw because I remembered an older referee do the same earlier that year.

2. What if A2 pushes B1 and the try is good? Would this qualify as team control, making the play dead?

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by cgb2010; Thu Dec 25, 2008 at 06:33pm.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 06:58pm
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1. Count the bucket and award Team A a throw-in at the spot nearest to the foul (unless they were in the bonus - doesn't sound like they were).

2. Count the bucket. There's no team control on a try/tap. Therefore, if Team B was in the bonus they would shoot free throws. Otherwise, throw-in for Team B.

Last edited by tjones1; Thu Dec 25, 2008 at 07:02pm.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 06:58pm
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"While The Try Was In The Air" ...

I'll give it a shot. NFHS rules.

A1 shoots a jumper. While the try is in the air, B1 pushes A2 in the back.
Ball has been released on the try, so count the basket by A1.
If Team A is in the bonus, A2 gets a one-and-one, or if Team A is in the double bonus, A2 gets two shots.
If Team A is not in the bonus, Team A gets the ball for a designated spot throwin nearest the foul.

A1 shoots a jumper. While the try is in the air, A2 pushes B1 in the back.
Ball has been released on the try, so count the basket by A1.
If Team B is in the bonus, B1 gets a one-and-one, or if Team B is in the double bonus, B1 gets two shots.
If Team B is not in the bonus, Team B gets the ball for a run-the-endline throwin anywhere on the endline.

All of the above assumes that the ball was released on the try when the foul occurred. If the ball was not released, then continuous motion may apply, team control may apply, and all bets are off. Let's see if my answers above are correct before we go down the "before release" path.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 07:10pm
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Welcome To The Jungle (I Mean Forum) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgb2010 View Post
Hi everybody, I ref an intramural league that plays by NCAA rules and another league by NFHS rules so if anybody could help me out with rulings under both rules it would be greatly appreciated.
cgb2010: Welcome the Forum. If you're a first year official, who has to learn two sets of rules at the same time, for an intramural league, well then, God bless you.

Relying on the advice of an "older referee", if older means more experienced, is often the right thing to do, but you have to be careful, older doesn't always equate to always correct. I'm a good example of this. I've been officiating for 28 years, and I'm still learning. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., who often posts on this Forum, is older than dirt (and actually gave some advice to Dr. Naismith when he invented basketball), and even he's wrong once, or twice, a decade.

Good first post question. Merry Christmas.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 07:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'll give it a shot. NFHS rules.

A1 shoots a jumper. While the try is in the air, A2 pushes B1 in the back.
Ball has been released on the try, so count the basket by A1.
If Team B is in the bonus, B1 gets a one-and-one, or if Team B is in the double bonus, B1 gets two shots.
If Team B is not in the bonus, Team B gets the ball for a run-the-endline throwin anywhere on the endline.
Are you sure team B would get to run the endline?
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 07:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgb2010 View Post
Hi everybody, I ref an intramural league that plays by NCAA rules and another league by NFHS rules so if anybody could help me out with rulings under both rules it would be greatly appreciated.

A1 shoots a jumper. While the try is in the air, B1 pushes A2 in the back.

1. What is the ruling if the try is good? I awarded A2 one free throw because I remembered an older referee do the same earlier that year.

2. What if A2 pushes B1 and the try is good? Would this qualify as team control, making the play dead?

Thanks in advance.
NFHS rules:

1. A1's shot counts. Penalize the B1 foul with the 1+1 or 2 is the bonus is in effect. If there is no bonus, A's throw-in nearest the foul.

2. If A2 fouls, B1, the try is good if it is already in the air. In your case, count the basket, and B1 shoots shots if in the bonus.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 08:10pm
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Just Kidding JugglingReferee, Merry Christmas ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Are you sure team B would get to run the endline?
Not 100% sure. Maybe about 90% sure. Got any help to offer? JugglingReferee chickened out and didn't broach the no bonus situation. Merry Christmas.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 08:12pm
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Run the End Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Are you sure team B would get to run the endline?
In situation B above, casebook 7.5.7 E seems close to a parallel: "While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3 fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus)... The three-point field goal attempt is successful... RULING: Score the goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in."

Seems B would still run the endline, correct?
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 09:01pm
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Good deal ... I would have kicked that one!
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 09:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Are you sure team B would get to run the endline?
Anytime a basket is scored or awarded and the ball will not remain dead, the scoring team's opponent is allowed to make its throw-in from anywhere along the endline.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 09:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgb2010 View Post
1. What is the ruling if the try is good? I awarded A2 one free throw because I remembered an older referee do the same earlier that year.
CGB, welcome to the forum. The solution you used is the NBA rule. It is different in both NFHS and NCAA, as the others have pointed out.
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 10:04pm
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One Step Further ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Anytime a basket is scored or awarded and the ball will not remain dead, the scoring team's opponent is allowed to make its throw-in from anywhere along the endline.
Before that subsequent run-the-endline throwin ends, aren't there situations that can occur, fouls, or violations, that might lead to a new throwin that may, or may not, be a run-the-endline variety?
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 10:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Before that subsequent run-the-endline throwin ends, aren't there situations that can occur, fouls, or violations, that might lead to a new throwin that may, or may not, be a run-the-endline variety?

There may well be, but I'm having a difficult time coming up with something. 7-7-b stipulates, "A team retains this privilege if the scoring team commits a violation or common foul (before the throw-in ends and before the bonus is in effect) and the ensuing throw-in spot would have been on the end line."

Of course, if the throw-in team commits a violation or foul, they would lose the throw-in altogether.

Can you think of anything else that might occur whereby they'd not be able to run the end line? I'm interested if so.

Last edited by Freddy; Thu Dec 25, 2008 at 10:14pm. Reason: speeling mistaks
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 10:20pm
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Run The Endline, Or Not ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
7-5-7-b stipulates, "A team retains this privilege if the scoring team commits a violation or common foul (before the throw-in ends and before the bonus is in effect) and the ensuinng throw-in spot would have been on the end line."
Bingo. That's what I was looking for. Thanks Freddy.

Here are some casebook plays:

7.5.7 SITUATION A: B1 goaltends on airborne shooter A1’s try. A1 fouls B1 in returning to the floor. RULING: Since no free throws result from the player-control foul, B’s throw-in is from anywhere along the end line because of the awarded goal for B1’s goaltending violation. (9-12 Penalty 1)

7.5.7 SITUATION B: Team A scores a field goal. B1 picks up the ball after the made basket, then proceeds out of bounds to start the throw-in process. B1 runs along the end line out of bounds while attempting to find an open teammate for the throw-in. Immediately after B1 releases the throw-in pass, (a) the ball is kicked by A2 near the end line; (b) the ball is kicked by A2 near the division line; or (c) the ball is deflected out of bounds across the end line off of A2. RULING: In (a) and (b), A2 has violated by kicking the ball. In (a), Team B will be awarded a throw-in and retain the right to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. In (b), Team B will put the ball in play at a designated spot nearest the violation, which is the division line. In (c), A2 legally contacted the ball and subsequently hit it out of bounds, ending the throw-in. Team B is awarded a designated spot throw-in on the end line.

7.5.7 SITUATION C: Team B has scored a field goal and A1 has the ball along the end line for a throw-in. Team A is not in the bonus. Prior to the ball being thrown inbounds by A1: (a) B1 fouls A2 inbounds near A1; (b) B1 fouls A2 at the division line; (c) B1 fouls A2 beyond the division line; or (d) A2 requests a timeout. RULING: In (a) and (d), Team A may throw-in from anywhere out of bounds along the end line following the foul reporting and the time-out. In (b) and (c), the ball will be given to Team A for a throw-in from the spot out of bounds nearest to where the foul occurred.

7.5.7 SITUATION D: Team A scores a field goal. B1 picks up the ball and steps out of bounds at the end line to prepare for a throw-in. Before the throw-in is completed, A2 is called for an intentional (or flagrant) foul on B3 near the end
line. RULING: B3 would shoot the two free throws for the intentional (or flagrant) foul with the lane cleared. Team B will then have a designated spot throw-in on the end line. (7-5-4b)

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3 fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point fieldgoal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

7.5.7 SITUATION F: A1 is fouled during an unsuccessful try and is awarded two free throws. While A1’s successful first free throw is in flight, A2 fouls B1 along the lane. Team B is not in the bonus. The lane is cleared for A1’s second attempt. A1 then violates by having a foot through the free-throw-line plane prematurely. RULING: The free-throw violation by A1 cancels the second attempt. Since Team B is not in the bonus, it results in a designated spot throw-in from the nearest spot out of bounds from where A2’s foul occurred. Team B may not run the end line as the last free throw was unsuccessful. (9-1-3e)
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Old Thu Dec 25, 2008, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not 100% sure. Maybe about 90% sure. Got any help to offer? JugglingReferee chickened out and didn't broach the no bonus situation. Merry Christmas.
Good catch BM. That's my bad. My better half was yelling at me to turn the computer off as we headed from one Christmas party to another. To be honest, I don't even remember writing what I wrote. I do remember the chocolate that I've been eating. And the food that I've been eating. And the .... and the ....

Since Scrapper1 answered the question, he's the one who gets full marks.
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