players with 4 fouls

[rockyroad]

Like I said, we've had this discussion on here before. Some people want to know as much info as possible - NOT to change the way they are calling the game, but to be aware of what is going on. I will never ask the scorekeeper who has 4 fouls or who is in foul trouble, but if they are putting the fouls on the board or have a PA person announcing the fouls - I WILL know when a player commits their 4th. Others seem to have some misguided notion that this desire for information means I am somehow cheating or trying to manipulate the game. My response to those people - whatever. They don't get it. I don't care that they don't get it. C'est la vie.

[Raymond]

When there are 2 books at the table I will ask them to verify that they have the same players in foul trouble (3 or 4 fouls); if there is a discrepency we can take care of it then and there so we don't have any disputes when someone fouls out.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

When there are 2 books at the table I will ask them to verify that they have the same players in foul trouble (3 or 4 fouls); if there is a discrepency we can take care of it then and there so we don't have any disputes when someone fouls out.

That's really good, hope you don't mind but after X-Mas break, that's going into my game.

[OHBBREF]

You will see more often than not at the upper levels that when there are two players available to take the foul and the impact player is in foul trouble the non impact player comes away with the foul, just watch the games and comment later.

We really need to know which team has 5 which has 6 for management of the game, and awareness allows us to know if the impact player on team A has 3 and the impact player on team B has 4 fouls. If the player commits the foul you make the call, if either the impact player or another player could get the foul you tend to give it to the non impact player, it is what I have been told to do, by those mentoring me from the D1 and above levels.

as far as knuckleheads go, they get no slack, if it is a foul, it is a foul, but they get the foul. the quicker a knuckle head legitimately gets to three or five the faster you do not have to deal with them.

No one is saying not to make, or to make up, foul calls, they are saying to make the calls consistantly yet where you can use some descretion to contribute to the competativeness and quaility of the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You will see more often than not at the upper levels that when there are two players available to take the foul and the impact player is in foul trouble the non impact player comes away with the foul.

I've heard this from some very, highly regarded, and highly respected, officials on my local board. That's fine for them, but not for me. I never called a multiple foul, nor have I ever seen one called, or heard about one called, so the foul that puts the fouled player at the greatest disadvantage is the one that I'm calling, whether it's a star player's second foul, a star player's fifth foul, or a bench warmer's foul.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

so the foul that puts the player at the greatest disadvantage is the one that I'm calling, whether it's a star player's second foul, a star player's fifth foul, or a bench warmer's foul.

You did not just say that!

After all of the wrangling back and forth over whether it is right or wrong to know if a player has three or four fouls - and it influencing your calls you just said that you were going to call the foul that puts the player (thereby the team) at the greatest disadvantage.

You sure you do not want to rephrase that - becuase if you disagree with the original premise IMO what you just wrote is worse.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

After all of the wrangling back and forth over whether it is right or wrong to know if a player has three or four fouls - and it influencing your calls you just said that you were going to call the foul that puts the player (thereby the team) at the greatest disadvantage.

You misunderstood Billy's point. He is going to call a foul on whichever player caused the greatest disadvantage to the shooter, regardless of whether it is the fouling player's second foul or fifth foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Like I said, we've had this discussion on here before. Some people want to know as much info as possible - NOT to change the way they are calling the game, but to be aware of what is going on. I will never ask the scorekeeper who has 4 fouls or who is in foul trouble, but if they are putting the fouls on the board or have a PA person announcing the fouls - I WILL know when a player commits their 4th. Others seem to have some misguided notion that this desire for information means I am somehow cheating or trying to manipulate the game. My response to those people - whatever. They don't get it. I don't care that they don't get it. C'est la vie.

I completely agree.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Like I said, we've had this discussion on here before. Some people want to know as much info as possible - NOT to change the way they are calling the game, but to be aware of what is going on. I will never ask the scorekeeper who has 4 fouls or who is in foul trouble, but if they are putting the fouls on the board or have a PA person announcing the fouls - I WILL know when a player commits their 4th. Others seem to have some misguided notion that this desire for information means I am somehow cheating or trying to manipulate the game. My response to those people - whatever. They don't get it. I don't care that they don't get it. C'est la vie.

I'll go along with you on this. If the information is readily available, I don't advocate making a point NOT to know. I simply say that being conspicuous about gathering this information can be easily misconstrued by others. When the phrases "make sure the 5th is not a cheap one" and "involving the star player" are included in the discussion, I feel we have crossed the line.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When the phrases "make sure the 5th is not a cheap one" and "involving the star player" are included in the discussion, I feel we have crossed the line.

And I agree with that. Notice you haven't read those comments in any of my posts!!

[DonInKansas]

With ANYONE having 4 fouls, it's not the official's job to change the way he's officiating; it's the player's job to change the way he's playing.