5 Second Violation??

[acgod24]

20 seconds left in 1st quarter, A1 is dribbling in frontcourt. Coach of A tells her "one shot". She dribbles out top by the timeline still in the frontcourt and picks up her dribble. She is not closely guarded. I get her for a 5 second violation as she is holding the ball, is this the correct call?

[derwil]

If she's not closely guarded then no, you kicked it.

I had a playoff game where one team, who knew they'd get killed if they played 32 minutes of basketball, actually held the ball for 7 minutes of a quarter. No passes, just held the ball after the half court throw in. Perfectly legal.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by derwil

If she's not closely guarded then no, you kicked it.

I had a playoff game where one team, who knew they'd get killed if they played 32 minutes of basketball, actually held the ball for 7 minutes of a quarter. No passes, just held the ball after the half court throw in. Perfectly legal.

I respectfully disagree. Wouldn't this fall under the "actionless contest" rule?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I respectfully disagree. Wouldn't this fall under the "actionless contest" rule?

It's hard to read sarcasm /humor in some of the posts, but I'll assume that is what you meant.

[Grail]

There once was a rule that forced one team to create the action. I don't remember it completely, but I believe the team behind in the score had to force the action.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Grail

There once was a rule that forced one team to create the action. I don't remember it completely, but I believe the team behind in the score had to force the action.

Correct, back in the early eighties.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's hard to read sarcasm /humor in some of the posts, but I'll assume that is what you meant.

I didn't mean any sarcasm. What part seemed sarcastic? I was just trying to point out a legit rule that contrasted with what a previous post-er witnessed...

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I didn't mean any sarcasm. What part seemed sarcastic? I was just trying to point out a legit rule that contrasted with what a previous post-er witnessed...

How can you have a 5 second closely guarded violation when you stated the player was not closely guarded? A long while back, if I remember correctly, the offense had to break the 28 foot line in the front court...but that was changed long ago. If the dribbler is not closely guarded (within 6 feet) by the defender, then you have nothing.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I didn't mean any sarcasm. What part seemed sarcastic? I was just trying to point out a legit rule that contrasted with what a previous post-er witnessed...

ma ref,
They got rid of that rule about 20 years ago.

I had a similar playoff experience with a team holding the ball for almost two entire quarters.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I didn't mean any sarcasm. What part seemed sarcastic? I was just trying to point out a legit rule that contrasted with what a previous post-er witnessed...

The rule is not intended for anything close to holding the ball out by the division line while the defense plays a zone defense inside the three-point arc.

Happens a couple of times a year when, for whatever reason, both teams are "happy" with the current score + / - one last shot by the offense at the end of a period.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I respectfully disagree. Wouldn't this fall under the "actionless contest" rule?

Ok, who is causing this to be an actionless contest - the O holding the ball or the D not playing any D? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Ok, who is causing this to be an actionless contest - the O holding the ball or the D not playing any D? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

There was a good discussion of this in another thread recently:
Backcourt Question

Personally, I'd warn both teams. Obviously the offense is doing nothing. But all the defense needs to do is get 1 player in a guarding position within 6 feet of the player with the ball to force a 5 sec closely guarded count.

IMHO, by doing nothing both teams are making a farce of the game. If this is a legal play, then what is the point of having a shot clock, if not to force the offense to do something, and prevent a situation exactly like this? Ditto with the 10 sec backcourt count...might as well get rid of both if leagues don't mind situations like this.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

There was a good discussion of this in another thread recently:
Backcourt Question

Personally, I'd warn both teams. Obviously the offense is doing nothing. But all the defense needs to do is get 1 player in a guarding position within 6 feet of the player with the ball to force a 5 sec closely guarded count.

IMHO, by doing nothing both teams are making a farce of the game. If this is a legal play, then what is the point of having a shot clock, if not to force the offense to do something, and prevent a situation exactly like this? Ditto with the 10 sec backcourt count...might as well get rid of both if leagues don't mind situations like this.

Again, under what authority? You are putting a team at a distinct disadvantage by not allowing them to execute a perfectly legal strategy.

Since we seem to be discussing NFHS rules here, there is not point, because there is no shot clock. If you work in a state that has a shot clock, or you want to discuss NCAA or NBA rules, then this discussion is moot.

Bottom line - the game is not actionless, nor is it a farce, if the offense holds the ball near mid-court and the defense chooses not to force the action by closely guarding.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

Personally, I'd warn both teams. Obviously the offense is doing nothing. But all the defense needs to do is get 1 player in a guarding position within 6 feet of the player with the ball to force a 5 sec closely guarded count.

I wouldn't warn the teams. But after the first quarter, I might go to the coaches and ask if they'd rather just shorten the quarters. Why let the clock run for 8 minutes, when both teams are happy to play only the last minute of each quarter? Why not just play 2 minute quarters for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters? This is perfectly within the rules and it would eliminate the tedium.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

might as well get rid of both if leagues don't mind situations like this.

I think it's fairly safe to assume that no league WANTS play like this. But it doesn't happen often enough to warrant addressing it with a major rules change.