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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:07pm
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Might have kicked it!

Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?

If Team A was making a throw in due to a jump ball alternate possesion arrow and had a 5 second violation - is that a change of the arrow?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:09pm
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Originally Posted by Refsmitty View Post
Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?

If Team A was making a throw in due to a jump ball alternate possesion arrow and had a 5 second violation - is that a change of the arrow?
When does the arrow switch?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:10pm
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loss of AP

You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by PIAA REF View Post
You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.
It's probably semantics, but I prefer to see this as A having "used" their arrow rather than losing it.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:17pm
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Originally Posted by PIAA REF View Post
You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.

Somebody help me out here, but I believe this is incorrect. The arrow switches when the ball is legally touched by a player inbounds. If you have a 5 second violation, there is no legal touching, therefore the arrow does NOT switch, and team A still has posession of the arrow.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:20pm
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Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk View Post
Somebody help me out here, but I believe this is incorrect. The arrow switches when the ball is legally touched by a player inbounds. If you have a 5 second violation, there is no legal touching, therefore the arrow does NOT switch, and team A still has posession of the arrow.
Keep looking. It also changes when the offense violates.

If the defense violates, then the offense will get a new throwin, without the AP, and will keep the AP for its next use.

I believe it's under the definition of when a throwin ends.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:21pm
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You are correct to a point, but if you read further it does say that the Arrow is loss on a violation. Doesn't switch until legally touched on the court BUT you lose it on a violation.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:22pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Keep looking. It also changes when the offense violates.

If the defense violates, then the offense will get a new throwin, without the AP, and will keep the AP for its next use.

I believe it's under the definition of when a throwin ends.
Hmm... not that I doubt you, but I dont have any books here at work. Can somebody post a rule reference? Thanks.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:25pm
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Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk View Post
Hmm... not that I doubt you, but I dont have any books here at work. Can somebody post a rule reference? Thanks.
6-4-4

The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:29pm
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old book

I am at work and all I have here is an old book, but it is rule 6 section 4 (alternating possession) art. 5 in the book I have here. I am sure it is just about the same in this years book. ALso I did have the Case book here look on page 51 of the Case book 6.4.5 It gives you the play that you need to look at to understand this.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 02:54pm
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Originally Posted by Refsmitty View Post
Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?
Incorrect if the throw-in was not an AP throw-in. (I'm not sure anyone answerd this question.)
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 03:24pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Incorrect if the throw-in was not an AP throw-in. (I'm not sure anyone answerd this question.)
Also incorrect if, instead of a violation, A commits a foul before the ball is inbounded. See 6.4.4 for when to reverse the arrow and 4.42.5 for a definition of when the throw-in ends.
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