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-   -   Might have kicked it! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50295-might-have-kicked.html)

Refsmitty Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:07pm

Might have kicked it!
 
Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?

If Team A was making a throw in due to a jump ball alternate possesion arrow and had a 5 second violation - is that a change of the arrow?:confused:

fiasco Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 557475)
Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?

If Team A was making a throw in due to a jump ball alternate possesion arrow and had a 5 second violation - is that a change of the arrow?:confused:

When does the arrow switch?

PIAA REF Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:10pm

loss of AP
 
You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.

Adam Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF (Post 557478)
You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.

It's probably semantics, but I prefer to see this as A having "used" their arrow rather than losing it.

rockchalk jhawk Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF (Post 557478)
You lose AP Arrow on a violation, so if A was inbounding an AP throw-in and a 5-second violation was called. They would also lose the arrow. B Would have the ball out of bounds and the next AP possession as well.


Somebody help me out here, but I believe this is incorrect. The arrow switches when the ball is legally touched by a player inbounds. If you have a 5 second violation, there is no legal touching, therefore the arrow does NOT switch, and team A still has posession of the arrow.

Adam Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk (Post 557485)
Somebody help me out here, but I believe this is incorrect. The arrow switches when the ball is legally touched by a player inbounds. If you have a 5 second violation, there is no legal touching, therefore the arrow does NOT switch, and team A still has posession of the arrow.

Keep looking. It also changes when the offense violates.

If the defense violates, then the offense will get a new throwin, without the AP, and will keep the AP for its next use.

I believe it's under the definition of when a throwin ends.

PIAA REF Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:21pm

You are correct to a point, but if you read further it does say that the Arrow is loss on a violation. Doesn't switch until legally touched on the court BUT you lose it on a violation.

rockchalk jhawk Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 557486)
Keep looking. It also changes when the offense violates.

If the defense violates, then the offense will get a new throwin, without the AP, and will keep the AP for its next use.

I believe it's under the definition of when a throwin ends.

Hmm... not that I doubt you, but I dont have any books here at work. Can somebody post a rule reference? Thanks.

fiasco Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchalk jhawk (Post 557488)
Hmm... not that I doubt you, but I dont have any books here at work. Can somebody post a rule reference? Thanks.

6-4-4

The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends or when the throw-in team violates.

PIAA REF Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:29pm

old book
 
I am at work and all I have here is an old book, but it is rule 6 section 4 (alternating possession) art. 5 in the book I have here. I am sure it is just about the same in this years book. ALso I did have the Case book here look on page 51 of the Case book 6.4.5 It gives you the play that you need to look at to understand this.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 11, 2008 02:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refsmitty (Post 557475)
Game last night... coming out of a time out team A has the arrow and the throw in. A five second call is made and I'm pretty sure the arrow changed to Team B - incorrect?

Incorrect if the throw-in was not an AP throw-in. (I'm not sure anyone answerd this question.)

Rufus Thu Dec 11, 2008 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 557520)
Incorrect if the throw-in was not an AP throw-in. (I'm not sure anyone answerd this question.)

Also incorrect if, instead of a violation, A commits a foul before the ball is inbounded. See 6.4.4 for when to reverse the arrow and 4.42.5 for a definition of when the throw-in ends.


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