Double Whistle Situation

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Okay, if we accept the idea (which I don't) that once a preliminary signal is made, we are obligated to stick with it, the question arises about when is a signal a signal? The official who has PC goes up with a fist, then starts back down with the hand before realizing his partner also has a fist up. Does the hand actually have to touch the back of the head to make it official, or what?

Don't over-think this too much. 99.73% of the time we're talking about two officials who have both come out and given a preliminary signal, without knowing the other official also had a call. Then it becomes obvious there are two calls.

If I'm reaching behind my head in your situation, I'm likely to have an itch back there.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If I'm reaching behind my head in your situation, I'm likely to have an itch back there.

You're kinda helping me make my point now. There is more than one way out of this little predicament. Back of my head has been known to itch.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You're kinda helping me make my point now. There is more than one way out of this little predicament. Back of my head has been known to itch.

M&M is right, this is about when both partners come out strong with opposing preliminaries.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

M&M is right, this is about when both partners come out strong with opposing preliminaries.

I'm sure this is true, but the preliminary signal alone means nothing. This is especially true when your partner has the opposite preliminary signal. If you report a double foul in this case you know one is wrong. So get together and take your best shot.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm sure this is true, but the preliminary signal alone means nothing. This is especially true when your partner has the opposite preliminary signal. If you report a double foul in this case you know one is wrong. So get together and take your best shot.

For those that are new and/or working NFHS or NCAA-M, and unless you are working NCAA-W (can't speak for NBA or FIBA) this is such bad advice I don't know where to begin. First of all you've taken a bad situation, because the crew didn't "blow and hold", and now have turned it into a CF because you're deciding to do whatever you want to do. You'd be laughed right off the staff for that. Blarges happen, try not to let them, but if it does please don't complicate it and get it resolved how its supposed to be by the code of the game in question. I can explain a blarge to my assignor, I can't explain doing whatever I want to do.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm sure this is true, but the preliminary signal alone means nothing. This is especially true when your partner has the opposite preliminary signal. If you report a double foul in this case you know one is wrong. So get together and take your best shot ignore the explicit direction of the NFHS rules committee.

Fixed it for you.

[just another ref]

Question: Why do we form an angry mob about a backcourt interpretation but defend this issue with its direct contradiction?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question: Why do we form an angry mob about a backcourt interpretation but defend this issue with its direct contradiction?

Let me put my pitchfork and torch down for minute and try to explain it.

The backcourt interp we yell and scream about is just wrong from a rules standpoint. It is an (apparent) mistake by the NFHS. We'll jump up and down about it all day long, then actually go out and make that call at night, because that's what we're supposed to do. (And, of course, grumble while giving the signal...)

The blarge call is essentially a mistake by the officials. If the officials are doing their job properly, the primary official will be making the call. But what happens when two officials make conflicting calls about the same play? The case play tells us what to do - we have to report both fouls. It's not that the NFHS is telling us that both a charge and a block can actually happen at the same time, they're just telling us how to handle the situation where two officials have disagreed (for however short a time) on a call. I believe I read at one point the reason behind this is the theory that no official has the right to over-rule another's call. If everyone sees an official call a charge, then another official comes in and says, "It's in my primary - it's a block!", then that second official has seemingly over-ruled the first.

To me, it's no different than what happens when an official blows the whistle on a TO request when that team isn't entitled to a TO - you still grant the TO anyway.

In both cases, it's an official's mistake in some way, and the rules tell us what to do in those cases. I don't happen to agree - I would rather do it the way the NCAA-W handle it by the two officials coming together and coming out with one call. But, we don't get that option in NFHS rules. We can grumble about it all day long, then go out and make sure we get the call right in the first place so this never comes into play.