Offensive Foul Reminder

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnyd

OK, I need my yearly reminder, when do we shoot and when do we NOT shoot on an offensive foul? NFHS please.

Assuming you mean "team control" or "player control" by "offensive," the answer is never. The key is to know when there is player and team control. Whenever there is player control, you have Team control, so we can ignore the PC part for this discussion.

There is no team control during a throwin or a try for goal, and those are the two most common times (along with immediately after them prior to a team gaining control) when a team considered to be on "offense" will commit a foul that is not considered team control.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Assuming you mean "team control" or "player control" by "offensive," the answer is never. The key is to know when there is player and team control. Whenever there is player control, you have Team control, so we can ignore the PC part for this discussion.There is no team control during a throwin or a try for goal, and those are the two most common times (along with immediately after them prior to a team gaining control) when a team considered to be on "offense" will commit a foul that is not considered team control.

Good explanation Snaqwells.

I believe that the most common example of a team control foul, thus no free throws, involves an illegal screen. A1 dribbles his defender, B1, into screener A2, who moves to "hip" the defender, thus freeing A1 from his defender. Since A1 had player control at the time of the illegal screen, there was also team control, so B1 will not get to shoot free throws even if we were in the bonus, or double bonus (see my above post). Team B will get a throw in at the closest spot to the foul (not the closest spot to the ball).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good explanation Snaqwells.

I believe that the most common example of a team control foul, thus no free throws, involves an illegal screen. A1 dribbles his defender, B1, into screener A2, who moves to "hip" the defender, thus freeing A1 from his defender. Since A1 had player control at the time of the illegal screen, there was also team control, so B1 will not get to shoot free throws even if we were in the bonus, or double bonus (see my above post). Team B will get a throw in at the closest spot to the foul (not the closest spot to the ball).

Next common would be the pass and crash; no player control, but team control is continuous on a pass.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ;552632

Next common would be the pass and crash; no player control, but team control is continuous on a pass.

Wow. That's amazing. Wow, again.

And I no longer find this thread offensive. It's become interesting. This is getting me ready for my first high school scrimmages next week. Nice job Snaqwells. Keep up the good work. Even us veterans need reminders every once in a while.

[just another ref]

The question is why we still have player control fouls. The player with control is part of the team with control, the penalty is the same, so..........

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The question is why we still have player control fouls. The player with control is part of the team with control, the penalty is the same, so.

Good question. I've wondered the same thing myself. Is there a real need for both? Seriously. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good question. I've wondered the same thing myself. Is there a real need for both? Seriously. Inquiring minds want to know.

The way NFHS rules are written... Team control ends when a shot is taken, player control ends when the whole airborne shooter thing is done...

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The question is why we still have player control fouls. The player with control is part of the team with control, the penalty is the same, so..........

Not quite...a PC foul cancels a made basket even if the try is in flight. A team control foul while a try is in flight does not cancel a made basket.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Not quite. A PC foul cancels a made basket even if the try is in flight. A team control foul while a try is in flight does not cancel a made basket.

Nice catch jdw3018. This won't make me, or Arsenio, go hmmmm anymore.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Not quite...a PC foul cancels a made basket even if the try is in flight. A team control foul while a try is in flight does not cancel a made basket.

But you can't have team control while a try is in flight, thus no team control fouls after the ball is released on a try.