legal or illegal dribble

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Mick, not meaning to be argumentative (or JR-like), but double-check the case play I'm referring to. It says, once a player is on the floor, that, "Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unles A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball."

Aha! the case book, I thought you said rule.

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.
Thanks.

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications ?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mick

Aha! the case book, I thought you said rule.

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.
Thanks.

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications ?

No, the violation was because the player changed the status of their pivot foot by standing up - not because they placed the ball on the floor and then picked it back up.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.

Would you hold the nail for the blind carpenter?

Originally Posted by mick

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications?

That's where I'm confused, and the reason my head is starting to hurt. How can the rules committe consider it to be a travel, unless there is player-control? So, can a player who places the ball on the ground still be considered having player-control? Can they place the ball on the ground, start to stand up, then request a TO before picking up the ball? I wouldn't think so.

Hence my confusion.

[Back In The Saddle]

Don't over think this one. It is an outlier, a one-off exception to the traveling rules. The action described is not traveling based on the rules in the rules book, in fact it contradicts those rules. It is traveling only because in this specific scenario the rules committee basically punted, called it traveling, and put it in the case book.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It is traveling only because in this specific scenario the rules committee basically punted, called it traveling, and put it in the case book.

It's traveling because the player's action is a deliberate attempt to evade the traveling rule. So they include it as a separate "article" to the traveling rule.

[M&M Guy]

Ok, my head hurts less now.

Carry on.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

And then I could come back and say case play 4.44.5 SitB says there is a difference between the two. A player on the floor is allowed to stand up, as long as they are dribbling, but they are not allowed to place the ball on the floor, then stand, then be the first to touch it again. So, doesn't that say "placing the ball on the floor" is not the same as "dribbling"? Two distinct acts (dribbling vs. placing) while doing the same thing (standing up), where one is legal and one is a violation.

(Oh, crap, here comes my headache again...)

Yes, and it is a stupid ruling. The fact is that there is NO player control in this case.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Hey! You try and read 40 of these posts while your head hurts! It ain't easy!

(Besides, remember the old saying, "What have you done for me lately?" )

I think BITS and Scrappy covered it well by saying the committee was just trying to close a potential loophole in the traveling provisions, rather than expanding on player-control and dribbling definitions. I can't imagine they are really saying that setting the ball on the floor is the same as dribbling.

I agree with Scrapper here. The reason for the Case Book ruling is that the player is attempting to circumvent the rule.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's traveling because the player's action is a deliberate attempt to evade the traveling rule. So they include it as a separate "article" to the traveling rule.