legal or illegal dribble
 

A rookie official asked me this last night. A1 is holding the ball and has not used his dribble. A1 places the ball on the floor, wipes his hands off on his socks, and then picks up the ball and starts his dribble. The rookie said he would call an illegal dribble. What do you think?

When was the first time that the player threw, pushed or batted the ball to the floor?

Placing the ball on the floor is not a dribble, IMHO.

Doesn't A1 releasing the ball voluntarily have to be a pass, try, or dribble?

I guess A1 could also hand-off the ball, and I know of no definition of that.

What else is there?

But you do know the definition of a dribble. Does placing the ball on the floor meet that definition?

Rule 4-15 Art 1,2 and 3. Placing the ball on the floor does not meet the definition of a dribble.

The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.

Standing A1, holds the ball in front of him with his hands on the side of the ball, moves both hands away from the ball. The ball drops to the floor. The ball was neither pushed, thrown, or batted to the floor. A1, then moves both feet and bats the ball to the floor. Has A1 travelled?

In the original sitch would you call travel if A1 moved his feet before picking up the ball?

The dribble may be started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.

The ball went to the floor. Yes.
Hands on the ball moving toward the release point, hands removed from the ball. Yes.

Granted, the forced applied on the ball was minimal.

How softly can you throw a ball?

Sam asks a good question; can a dribble start without pushing, forcing, or batting?

Sure. A1 is holding the ball. He then "lets" it drop to the floor and catches it with both hands. He proceeds to dribble the ball. Violation?

I think setting the ball on the floor, releasing it and starting a dribble should be considered to be a dribble violation, because it exceeds the stands still and holds requirement of 4.15 Comment.

The holding of the ball is a clearly written parameter, as is the standing still.
Should the ball be allowed to be picked up? I think, yes.
Should the ball be allowed to be dribbled? I think not.

References ? My gut.

Under the traveling definition, I guess it's not. However, could we really not call that a travel, or at least something under 2-3?

I agree. Placing the ball down on the floor, letting go, and then touching it again has to be considered a dribble.

It's one reason that I've never liked the ruling in the final sentence of 4.44.5 Sit B.

I've got a violation.

Why? When was the ball batted or pushed to the floor? 4-15-1

Scrapper1,
From U.P. here, it looks like putting the ball on the floor and releasing it may be the start of a dribble, and the subsequent *picking up* may be the end of the dribble.

No, it's not a travel violation. Let's assume my hypothetical player never moved his feet. Do you have a dribbling violation?

I think it's obviously a violation, but the ball was never pushed, batted, or forced to the floor (unless gravity counts, but that would include the OP's player setting the ball on the floor.)