legal or illegal dribble

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Or, one other question - what is the call if a player, while laying on the floor and holding the ball, set/places/(does not drop or push or throw) the ball on the floor, stands up, then picks up the ball?

By my scenario, he can pick it up, but has ended his dribble.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

By my scenario, he can pick it up, but has ended his dribble.

Well, the reason I asked was that 4.44.5B says that is a traveling violation. So, since we can call a travel in this instance where the ball is placed on the ground, I would assume that means the rules committee is saying placing is not the same as dribbling, especially since we know if the player is dribbling, they can then stand up (ala Curly Neal). Also, this seems to indicate that even though they are not actually "holding" the ball, and they are not dribbling, they are still considered having player control?

My head hurts.

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, the reason I asked was that 4.44.5B says that is a traveling violation. So, since we can call a travel in this instance where the ball is placed on the ground, I would assume that means the rules committee is saying placing is not the same as dribbling, especially since we know if the player is dribbling, they can then stand up (ala Curly Neal). Also, this seems to indicate that even though they are not actually "holding" the ball, and they are not dribbling, they are still considered having player control?

My head hurts.

Your rule [4.44.5B] says "while holding the ball".
Yet you said in your sitch that he put the ball down and then stood.

Your head should hurt.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

Your rule [4.44.5B] says "while holding the ball".
Yet you said in your sitch that he put the ball down and then stood.

Your head should hurt.

Mick, not meaning to be argumentative (or JR-like), but double-check the case play I'm referring to. It says, once a player is on the floor, that, "Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unles A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball."

[mick]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Mick, not meaning to be argumentative (or JR-like), but double-check the case play I'm referring to. It says, once a player is on the floor, that, "Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unles A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball."

Aha! the case book, I thought you said rule.

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.
Thanks.

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications ?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by mick

Aha! the case book, I thought you said rule.

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.
Thanks.

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications ?

No, the violation was because the player changed the status of their pivot foot by standing up - not because they placed the ball on the floor and then picked it back up.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mick

"I see !", said the blind carpenter as he pciked up his hammer and saw.

Would you hold the nail for the blind carpenter?

Originally Posted by mick

So then putting the ball down, releasing it, and being first to touch is a violation if you are on the floor, but it is nothing if you are standing, other than loss of player control and all it's ramifications?

That's where I'm confused, and the reason my head is starting to hurt. How can the rules committe consider it to be a travel, unless there is player-control? So, can a player who places the ball on the ground still be considered having player-control? Can they place the ball on the ground, start to stand up, then request a TO before picking up the ball? I wouldn't think so.

Hence my confusion.

[Back In The Saddle]

Don't over think this one. It is an outlier, a one-off exception to the traveling rules. The action described is not traveling based on the rules in the rules book, in fact it contradicts those rules. It is traveling only because in this specific scenario the rules committee basically punted, called it traveling, and put it in the case book.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Mick, not meaning to be argumentative (or JR-like), but double-check the case play I'm referring to. It says, once a player is on the floor, that, "Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unles A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is the first to touch the ball."

Hey, Johnny-come-lately, I pointed that out 40 posts ago back in post #11.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Hey, Johnny-come-lately, I pointed that out 40 posts ago back in post #11.

Hey! You try and read 40 of these posts while your head hurts! It ain't easy!

(Besides, remember the old saying, "What have you done for me lately?" )

I think BITS and Scrappy covered it well by saying the committee was just trying to close a potential loophole in the traveling provisions, rather than expanding on player-control and dribbling definitions. I can't imagine they are really saying that setting the ball on the floor is the same as dribbling.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I think BITS and Scrappy covered it well by saying the committee was just trying to close a potential loophole.......

Well put, I think, and looking at it that way, this is a loophole that is still open.
As far as I'm concerned, if the player set the ball on the floor and the ball does not move, he can do anything he wants without a violation. Pick it up whether he moves his feet or not, start a dribble, whatever.