Yelling In The Crowd (Another Official)

[archangel]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

The way this guy was acting is unacceptable -I agree. I also disagree about going directly to assignor/association. It would depend how well you actually know the guy. Alot of times you can handle these with a simple "what the Heck was with that act at the game." Like you say point out its innappropriate and then let his reaction dictate the next step.
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I look at it this way. If an official in the stands doesnt know any better and is yelling out the working officials name, then do you really think saying "what the Heck was with that act at the game" is going to make him see the light? Of course not! That person is either too stupid or too new.
If he did it once, he'll do it again until OFFICIALLY reprimanded- hence notifying the assignor/assoc. Dont pass the buck to the next crew.
Though we are taught to ignore fans unless extreme (hello game mngmnt), I might also have him removed (htbt) for being an official using my name-- ...if its just another fan that knows my name, I may just ignore him

[Adam]

I see no problem with holding officials to a higher standard than other fans.

[asdf]

People in the stand know this guy is an official and now he's making the statement that it's OK to do what he's doing.

I also guarantee you that he's throwing you under the bus with these same people.

I have a face to face with the guy as soon as possible with an understanding that should he do it again, he will become parking lot personnel.

If he has a problems with it, I take it to the the next appropriate level. If he still has a problem with it, I take it to our fellow officials.

[ILRef80]

Ugh. That's breaking the golden rule, IMO. I feel for you. I wouldn't make too much of a deal out of it, but I would let him know that I didn't appreciate it and I wouldn't seek out working together with him in the future.

[ILRef80]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

While I agree that the use of your name was completely unprofessional and should not have been done, I also understand the "dad" yelling about calls - I have been known to do the same thing from time to time. I never use any adjectives or other words to describe a call (That's a horrible call, etc.)...but when my sons are playing, I have a hard time not noticing things that are just not right. Example: son establishes LGP and then gets rolled by the kid driving to the basket - ref calls block on son. Explanation to coach is "He was moving backwards coach, never got set. He needs to take it like a man to get a charge call from me." I said some things to that official - and when he brought it up at a meeting several weeks later, he heard the same things again. The notion that someone has to stop being a dad just because they are an official is incorrect. I need to remain calm, and have had to get up and walk out of gyms at times, but when something blatantly wrong occurs, I will say something to the officials. I will never call them by name, I will never call them out, but I will say "How can that be...?"

I would have no problem with this. In the situation you described, they are simply not applying the rule correctly. It's a common myth that the defender has to be "set" in order to take a charge. Most officials know that's not the case, but I can see where newer officials may not have conquered that myth. I think it would be fine to approach the official (perhaps not at that particular game) and politely explain the rule.

[btaylor64]

I personally think this should be handled "in house". I don't think there is any need to talk to the assignor. JMO

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I personally think this should be handled "in house". I don't think there is any need to talk to the assignor. JMO

To me, this largely depends on how bad the behavior was.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

To me, this largely depends on how bad the behavior was.

Well like i said its in house. If he is acting half as bad as a crazed fan i am going to acknowledge him and tell him (wouldn't do this normally, but i know him AND he's an official) to cut it out. if he persists then i will eject him with no worries or doubts and then i guarantee you we will have it out after the game or in the lockeroom of our game together. After that it will be over and if he wants to continue with it and act unprofessional, i will let him hang himself by acting the same way to another crew and when he does, both crews can take it to the assignor, so you can show it is more than an isolated incident. But i am going to attempt to take care of it privately and it will also give him a blackeye when i eject him.

I think it is healthy sometimes to have it out with your partners and have lively, and even sometimes heated debate, but we as a crew and as an individual cannot and must not let it leak onto the floor.

[Mregor]

[QUOTE=MOofficial;550526]ITo top this all off I work with the guy Saturday.
QUOTE]

So what happened on Saturday?

Mregor

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I would have tossed him during that very game. And then puked on his shoes. But as to Saturday, don't bring it up yourself, but if he even hints at the incident, be sure you mention how completely unprofessional it was for him to say anything about your calls. It's inexcusable. ALso be sure your assignor/commissioner knows.

_________________
Juulie,
Welcome back! You've been away far too long and we've missed you! I agree that its inexcusable, but I probably wouldn't toss him. If he's that immature, he probably wouldn't learn from being tossed anyway. I used to work with a guy who got tossed routinely before he started officiating. My how his eyes were opened when he stepped on the court the first time.
I DO agree with you about NOT bringing it up. But if he did I'd probably pounce on him like a cat on a mouse!

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see no problem with holding officials to a higher standard than other fans.

__________________

I do the same for school officials, school board members, and other clergy!!! Some of the loudest howler monkeys I've heard have been preachers, teachers, principals, and superintendents. They looked ridiculous and made some of the stupidest comments. There's something wrong with a professional looking so unprofessional.

[cdaref]

The commish or assignor needs to know right away.

This is not something to be handled "man to man." Because in the end it isnt about you and him. Its about him understanding his obligations to the association--which isnt between you and him. He has to set an example. The other parents know he is a ref--and certainly the clock, book and coaches know it. It undermines confidence in the association and in all the refs. On top of being totally unprofessional. Dont confuse this as a problem between two officials.

I dont know about tossing him. I had this happen once and at half time I came out a minute early and mosey'd over to him with a smile on my face to "say hi" (or so he thought) and asked if he could ramp it down a notch with a smile. At first he started to balk and I told him that my only other option was to ask the game manager ot have him leave and I didnt want to do that (though I think he got my point that I would have done that). He got the message and cut it out. He said sorry. I did it as discreetly as a guy in a striped shirt can do it. I tried to make it seem like it didnt bother me in the least. I appreciate that isnt always possible--you dont know the guy well or he is sitting way up in the stands or whatever. Whatever you do, I wouldnt make a show of it. That's why I dont like the obvious toss.

But the assignor needs to know. THEN I would talk to the guy (if you want to talk to him) and say, "hey listen, you put me in a spot at that game. I felt I had to talk to XXX about that stuff, since it impacts our relations with coaches and the book and clock operators to see stuff like that. I appreciate you cut it out but we gotta be together on this stuff." He was chilly to me for the rest of the season. But the start of the next season he came up to me and appologized and said I had done the right thing. I had the travel on a game where he had the game before mine just Friday. All was good.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I personally think this should be handled "in house". I don't think there is any need to talk to the assignor. JMO

Why? The guy's poor behavior and criticism of his fellow official was clearly public.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I personally think this should be handled "in house". I don't think there is any need to talk to the assignor. JMO

What would you do if this was just an fan, who got out of line?

I would hold the official to a higher standard than the fan so if you deal with the fan by having them tossed you have to toss this clown, and if you just have the administration talk to him about his actions you at least do the same for this guy.

Once you have him bounced or dealt with it becomes an issue for the school and the kid probably wants his dad tossed anyway for making a fool of himself.

your choice with the assignors but I don't care if that guy was the assignor I am not tolerating that behavior from a fan I really am not going to take it from a brother official.