Question

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

You fail to acknowledge the two different contexts in which the word "throw" is being used.

....

Arguing that the use of the phrase "the throw is unsuccessful", ripped from the context of a throw that by definition is a try, should apply also to a "throw" that specifically is not a "try", is comparing apples and oranges.

The point is that the rule was to make a "thrown ball" analogous to to a "try" when it was possible that it could be a try. Everyone knows what the purpose of the rule is and to argue it means anything else is just silly. Don't get hung up on the narrow letter of the rule....that's not the way the rule book was ever written or meant to be read. What I've claimed is not inconsistent with any NFHS official explanation or comment on why the rule was changed and what it was meant to address.

[just another ref]

Suggestion: Ball thrown from outside the arc counts 3 unless it touches a teammate inside the arc or drops below the level of the basket first.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Suggestion: Ball thrown from outside the arc counts 3 unless it touches a teammate inside the arc or drops below the level of the basket first.

So when B1 deflects the pass just after its release and while it is well below the level of the ring, and it flies way up into the air and drops through the goal, how many points would your rule award?

[just another ref]

Second suggestion: A ball thrown from outside the arc shall count 3 points unless touched by a teammate in the 2 point area or, after having been above the basket, is redirected above the basket a second time by contact with an opponent or the floor.

Otherwise known as: You can't bounce in a trey.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Second suggestion: A ball thrown from outside the arc shall count 3 points unless touched by a teammate in the 2 point area or, after having been above the basket, is redirected above the basket a second time by contact with an opponent or the floor.

Otherwise known as: You can't bounce in a trey.

Still doesn't work....the thrown ball could be on its way up in a pass that is clearly away form the basket.

My suggestionn: A ball thrown from outside the 3 point arc shall be considered a try if it enters the goal prior encountering any event that normally ends a try.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still doesn't work....the thrown ball could be on its way up in a pass that is clearly away form the basket.

My suggestionn: A ball thrown from outside the 3 point arc shall be considered a try if it enters the goal prior encountering any event that normally ends a try.

If you consider it a try, then when B1 fouls A1 during this action, it is a common foul or a shooting foul?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If you consider it a try, then when B1 fouls A1 during this action, it is a common foul or a shooting foul?

The whole point was to remove judgement of try/pass and I would think that should extend to related fouls. It would be a mess to count it 3 points but declare that it was not a try and send the player to the line for 2 FTs (double bonus).

Likewise, no matter what we do, we're still left with the case of the ball not going in and a foul. We have to judge pass/try and award 3 shots or the bonus/posession.

As much as some would like to believe that this rule (in any form) eliminates judgement, it only relocates it.

[BillyMac]

Nevadaref: Thanks for your research and citations. If I recall correctly, when the NFHS first went with the three point try, officials had to differentiate between a real try (three points), and a pass that accidentally went into the basket (two points), both from behind the arc. A few years later, the NFHS took that judgment away and said that any thrown ball from behind the arc counted as three points, a pass, or a shot. You're right, in that there seems to be a contradiction between 4.41.4 SITUATION B, and 5.2.1 SITUATION C. From this contradiction, it appears that the NFHS still wants us to determine the difference between a pass that goes in, and a shot. Is this some kind space time warp? I'm confused. I hope that somebody with some contacts at the NFHS can get this settled once and for all. If I remember correctly, didn't one of our Forum members date Mary Struckhoff back when they were in high school, and doesn't he have her personal email address?

4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING: In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three-point line. In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two-point area.

5.2.1 SITUATION B: With 2:45 left in the second quarter, B1 has the ball on the left wing in Team B's frontcourt, standing behind the three-point arc. B5 makes a backdoor cut toward the basket. B1 passes the ball toward the ring and B5 leaps for the potential "alley-oop" dunk. The ball, however, enters and passes through the goal directly from B1's pass and is not touched by B5. RULING: Score three points for Team B. A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal.

5-2-1: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown. See 4-5-4.

[Camron Rust]

Billy, the only solution of these apparently conflicting case plays is to conclude that the "3-point thrown ball" is only to apply to a ball that is thrown in such a way that it has a chance to the enter the basket without any redirection....whether it is the intent of the thrower or not....and that a mere touch by team B doesn't negate the chance for scoring 3 ponts. And, further, that it can no longer be a three if there is no chance to enter the basket without a deflection. This notion is only way to reconcile the various posted situations .