Held ball stop clock

[jritchie]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Which begs for a poll. How many officials use a fist before signaling a 'T'?

Not me, like was said earlier, skip the fist and get straight to the good stuff

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Follow the current chart. Use the fist to stop the clock for a foul. Use the thumbs to stop the clock for a held ball. Use the open hand to stop the clock in all other situations (injury, time out, violation).

Your (or someone's) assumption that the open hand means "violation" is not currently valid.

Agree that it is not the correct mechanic, but I would like to see them go to an open palm before the thumbs up. I go straight to the thumbs b/c it is the correct mechanic, but had a partner last year try to sell me on the palm first and it makes a lot of sense. If you have a scrum and two officials go flying in, if one has an open palm about to grant a time-out and the other has two thumbs, then you have an issue that the whole gym knows about...if on the other hand two officials go flying in, both go to the palm first, but one has a jump ball (and has not yet given the thumbs) and the other has a time-out, then you can get together to discuss what you have without it being obvious to everyone that the two of you had something different...like I said I don't it for the sake of the prescribed mechanic, but it makes a lot of sense..

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Although trying to be helpful, I don't agree with the recommendation of your veteran partner. By widespread convention, the open palm signal is not just an indication to stop the clock, it conveys that the reason for doing so is that a violation has been committed. In the case of a held ball that is not true. Neither team has done anything wrong, so should the open palm signal be given?

First off fist up means stop clock for foul and open hand just means stop clock, not stop for violation. Secondly a held ball is a type of violation (I'm sure it says so in the Rules by Topic book, but not sure about the rule book.)

The only possible advantage of using the open hand up before signaling held ball is if another official is calling a foul. Hand up and fist up, get together and talk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Secondly a held ball is a type of violation (I'm sure it says so in the Rules by Topic book, but not sure about the rule book.)

Violations are in Rule 9. Held ball isn't in Rule 9. Therefore, ...

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Violations are in Rule 9. Held ball isn't in Rule 9. Therefore, ...

Right you are. But the held ball is enumerated in NFHS 5-8: "Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
ART. 1 . . . Signals:
a. A foul.
b. A held ball.
c. A violation."

It would seem it exists as a separate entity, distinct from fouls and violations.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Which begs for a poll. How many officials use a fist before signaling a 'T'?

I don't.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It would seem it exists as a separate entity, distinct from fouls and violations.

Yes -- that's my point.

LDUB (based on some book) has a different opinion.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Violations are in Rule 9. Held ball isn't in Rule 9. Therefore, ...

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Right you are. But the held ball is enumerated in NFHS 5-8: "Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
ART. 1 . . . Signals:
a. A foul.
b. A held ball.
c. A violation."

It would seem it exists as a separate entity, distinct from fouls and violations.

I found the book. It is the 2006 NFHS Rules by Topic. On page 128 the topic is "Held Ball Violation". I'm not sure why the rule book and the Rules by Topic book disagree on whether a held ball is a violation or not.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Violations are in Rule 9. Held ball isn't in Rule 9. Therefore, ...

I see. I am still pretty sure that held ball was listed as a violation in the rules by topic book. I'm not saying that makes it a violation, I'm just saying it.