Held ball stop clock

[just another ref]

Working jr. high tonight with a veteran partner. He asked if I minded if he pointed out a thing or two he had seen me do wrong recently. I said go ahead. The problem was that I was giving the held ball signal without giving the open palm stop clock signal first. I said I thought that either was acceptable. He gave a condescending smile and said that my way was not acceptable, that there was no signal to stop the clock. I knew that the official NFHS signal had at one time said "stop clock for jump/held ball" but it was not something I had looked at recently. He went on to say that our association was going to discuss some things and try to be more uniform in calls as well as mechanics, and I said sure, who wouldn't be for that? Well, I check my new book and I see that the held ball signal still says stop clock just like always. My question is how this is done by others. Is the open palm first ok followed by a held ball signal, or is it considered overkill, or what?

[w_sohl]

Held ball signal only... That is what my association uses.

[referee99]

Often times in held ball situations officials need to make their presence felt, with a loud whistle and physical presence, signaling to players to stop their battle. I find that when I'm in that mode I want to come in low (players often on the ground) with held ball signal.

It would be great to be able to just signal stoppage of the clock and then the held ball signal, but I don't know if that would be as effective in a floor scrum scenario -- just my take.

[Back In The Saddle]

Held ball signal is all that's needed.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Held ball signal is all that's needed.

Yup. Thumbs up it is.

[BillyMac]

I believe that there are only three ways to stop the clock, blow the whistle and signal with an open hand for a violation, blow the whistle and signal with a fist for a foul, and blow the whistle and signal with thumbs up for a held ball.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yup. Thumbs up it is.

Me, too.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that there are only three ways to stop the clock, blow the whistle and signal with an open hand for a violation, blow the whistle and signal with a fist for a foul, and blow the whistle and signal with thumbs up for a held ball.

Uh, you forgot the 'T' formation!!!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Uh, you forgot the 'T' formation!!!

Technically (pun most assuredly intended) the fist is required before the formation of the T. But it's widely accepted to skip it and get straight to the good part

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

He gave a condescending smile and said that my way was not acceptable, that there was no signal to stop the clock.

Next time you see that partner, give them the condecending smile and ask them what the rule book says. Then point out Signal #3 in the back of the book.

[Back In The Saddle]

Signal #3 in the current officials manual says: Stop clock for jump/held ball. I guess your partner was right, a "stop clock" signal is required. It's just that the thumbs IS the stop clock signal.

[Zoochy]

When I started reading your post, I thought you were going to ask about using 'Thumbs' or 'Index Fingers'. I have seen many officials use 'Index Fingers'. Oh it looks so bad, but....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Uh, you forgot the 'T' formation!!!

No I didn't, as Back In The Saddle has already stated, but I did forget another way to stop the clock; just allow the period to end, the horn will sound all by itself, so there's not need for a whistle, or a signal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Working jr. high tonight with a veteran partner. He asked if I minded if he pointed out a thing or two he had seen me do wrong recently. I said go ahead. The problem was that I was giving the held ball signal without giving the open palm stop clock signal first. I said I thought that either was acceptable. He gave a condescending smile and said that my way was not acceptable, that there was no signal to stop the clock. I knew that the official NFHS signal had at one time said "stop clock for jump/held ball" but it was not something I had looked at recently. He went on to say that our association was going to discuss some things and try to be more uniform in calls as well as mechanics, and I said sure, who wouldn't be for that? Well, I check my new book and I see that the held ball signal still says stop clock just like always. My question is how this is done by others. Is the open palm first ok followed by a held ball signal, or is it considered overkill, or what?

Although trying to be helpful, I don't agree with the recommendation of your veteran partner. By widespread convention, the open palm signal is not just an indication to stop the clock, it conveys that the reason for doing so is that a violation has been committed. In the case of a held ball that is not true. Neither team has done anything wrong, so should the open palm signal be given?

Through 2003-04 the NFHS published a signal chart that was more step-by-step than the current one. For instance, it gave a box with signal #4 then a "+" followed by the graphics for the types of fouls (including a T). It did the same for violations by first showing giving signal #2 and then the type of violation signal.

Paradoxically, signal #2 was to accompany the sounding of the whistle and preceed the type of time-out signal when stopping the game for the granting of a time-out, but it was not listed as to be given along with the whistle and preceeding the signal for a held ball when stopping play for that. Why one and not the other? Neither are violations? Seems to me that it should be both or neither. My personal opinion is that the open palm should be used strictly for violations only. That way it conveys extra information to everyone. I happen to not use it for TOs. I just point at the individual requesting the time-out when blowing the whistle to grant it.

If your association is going to have a discussion on mechanics, you may wish to bring up those points.

PS What should we do when halting play for an injury?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Through 2003-04 the NFHS published a signal chart that was more step-by-step than the current one.


PS What should we do when halting play for an injury?

Follow the current chart. Use the fist to stop the clock for a foul. Use the thumbs to stop the clock for a held ball. Use the open hand to stop the clock in all other situations (injury, time out, violation).

Your (or someone's) assumption that the open hand means "violation" is not currently valid.