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ncaa men's: 'absolutes' and goaltending
hey guys-
looking for some input. i was visiting with a fellow official in the office today and we came up with some questions that i wanted to run by a few of you to get feedback if you don't mind regarding what was discussed yesterday in our college juco conference rules meeting. on the concept of 'absolutes' that is being pushed by the ncaa this year as seen in the instructional video with john adams: - two hands on a ball handler is a foul - tripping a ball handler is a foul - was there one more? on the subject of absolutes, they showed a play in the ncaa video where a player was breaking up the court by himself without the ball for an easy basket. the ball is thrown to him, but while the ball is in the air for the pass, he's tripped up, goes to the floor, and never ends up touching the ball and never technically becomes a 'ball handler' and the ball goes oob. is this still an 'absolute foul'? goaltending: does the ball have to be breaking the vertical or the horizontal plane of the ring for the new goaltending rule? in other words, can the ball be ball be all the way over to one side or the other of the backboard and touched on the way up after having touched the backboard and have goaltending? or does the ball have to be above the cylinder in the sense that if you were looking up through the cylinder from the bottom you could see the ball directly above you? i hope that makes sense. i'd appreciate any guidance you guys can send my way. thanks in advance. |
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The "new" goaltending rule was clarified somewhat in my meeting Saturday. We didn't discuss the over the basket/off to one side issue. But, it was made clear that the ball must be entirely above the level of the rim when it strikes the backboard for the new rule to be in effect. For me, that settled the question we discussed a few weeks back.
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming |
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-Josh |
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right, i agree that it has to be above the level of the rim... that's what i meant by horizontal plane of the rim. but the way the guy at our meeting explained it i, i got the impression that if you couldn't (theoretically) look up from directly under the cylinder and see the ball above the cylinder, then it wasn't goaltending. that doesn't make any sense to me, so i'm hoping i misunderstood and it only applies to balls above the horizontal plane. does anybody know for sure? |
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I agree that an obvious advantage is being nullified, but this situation is highly subjective relative to the other situations that are 'absolutes'. the other ones are pretty cut and dried, but this one has the huge variable of the loose ball. who's to say that he could have even gotten to the pass in the first play, say an uncatchable pass? i know, i know, it's not football, but you get my point...
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I'm not sure I can be any clearer than that. |
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Perhaps he misconstrued this, believing it means the entire ball must be in the cylinder (which Scrappy rightly points out is basket interference) when in reality it really just means the entire ball must be above a geometric plane formed from the points along the top of the ring?
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming Last edited by Back In The Saddle; Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 03:37pm. |
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-Josh |
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That's what was so noteworthy about John Adams' statements. In the past there haven't been any "absolutes". He seems to be trying to introduce a few. Jeff may now find his supervisors telling him to call it differently this year than they've said to call it in the past.
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming |
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If the ball is within the cylinder, that is still basket interference. The new rule addresses the ball being above the rim, touching the backboard, and NOT within the cylinder. Under the new rule, the ball is considered on its downward flight, so if is touched it is goaltending. |
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