Camps

[Sleeper]

Are there specific camps new officials should go to or is any camp okay?

My dad officated for 20 years and picked up all of his skills from more experience officials and conducting chapter skill workshops, but it was never as big as the camps I have seen online. Any suggestions will be helpful.

Also, are there video tapes or other supplimental materials that can help me learn mechanics so I don't make a complete fool of myself when I call my first non-league games this fall.

Thanks for the assistance.

[stripes]

There are really two schools of thought on this topic. One is to start small and simple--go to a local HS camp and get instruction from your peers and work on two man mechanics.

The other is to go to "big time" camps where the instructors are college refs. These camps will generally focus on two and three man mechanics with some working only on the three man game.

My personal feeling is to go to the camps where the best instruction is given. That will mean go to the "big time" camps (do not mistake this for "try out" camps where no instruction is given--it is just an opportunity to get hired by a college assignor). I believe that leaning from those who are the best at what they do is the best route to follow. I would initially try to find camps where instruction is given in two and three man mechanics. Much more is generally taught at these camps than the positioning on the floor--dealing with coaches and players, posture, presentation, call selection, etc. Well worth the extra bucks, IMO, for what you get out of it.

I have used this method myself and it has worked very well for me--9 yrs officiating, 5 as a varsity official, 2 state championship games, several state tournaments worked, college leagues and league tournaments. My only regret is that I waited until the end of my second year to go to camp for the first time.

[JRutledge]

Usually the kind of camp that is for beginners are local camps. Do not go all over the country to learn something from people you might never see again or that have a different agenda then yourself. You will be better off looking around you and deciding to go to those camps. You local association might have a camp that would much better suite you than paying $400 or more just for a camp that most participants are trying to get hired at the college level. Better environment.

Peace

[zebraman]

I'm with Rut on this one. You need the basics and if you go to a "bigtime" camp, you might end up getting so much information thrown at you that you get frustrated or have it go in one ear and out the other.

Go to a local camp that is designed for high school officials. Check with your local referee association as they generally know of the camps in your area. Our local ref association has a "video library" and yours might too. If so, I'm sure they will let you check out some videos to take home and watch.

Also try to work some youth leagues in the summer and fall and have an experienced partner work with you and give you feedback. I have been to camps and they are valuable, but the most improvement I have made has been as a result of the feedback of veteran refs who watched me work live school games.

Z

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Usually the kind of camp that is for beginners are local camps.


You local association might have a camp that would much better suite you than paying $400 or more just for a camp that most participants are trying to get hired at the college level. Better environment.

Peace

I disagree with this. It is not necessarily a better environment. It certainly will be a different environemnt. You will tend to get more information at a damp that is staffed with college refs, but my experience is that the clinicians like to get beginners to work with because they have so much to learn and they are so eager to learn. They are ready and very able to deal with the new guys and the new people tend to get the most out of the camp.

Look for the best instruction.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by stripes

I disagree with this. It is not necessarily a better environment. It certainly will be a different environemnt. You will tend to get more information at a damp that is staffed with college refs, but my experience is that the clinicians like to get beginners to work with because they have so much to learn and they are so eager to learn. They are ready and very able to deal with the new guys and the new people tend to get the most out of the camp.

Look for the best instruction.

You do not have to agree. To each his own. If you want to learn you are better off learning IMO around people that you will have to work with. What good is it going to do to surround yourself by people that after the camp will not ever see you again. I think newer officials need instruction from people that will see them long after the camp is over and might be able to actually see them during a game.

Now officials that have been around the block and have advanced far and are looking for other experiences and training, the "cash" cow camps might be what they need to learn. Those officials might have already outdone the folks in their area and need "advanced" training. I have even had D1 Officials tell me to not go to those camps. You are better off getting a person that is already within the "system" and having them recommend you for moving up. But then again, that is not the purpose of what this question was. It was for the "training" of younger officials. Newer officials need different attention. They do not need to be thrown in with officials that are only their to get hired and do not care to make others look good. They need to be where other officials are there to learn and that to me is a better environment.

For officials like you and I stripes, we might feel more confrontable in a "cash" camp. For the newer guys that might not be the best thing. I know I would have been intimidated earlier in my career. Most of us would be.

Peace

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge
You do not have to agree. To each his own. If you want to learn you are better off learning IMO around people that you will have to work with.

Too often I have seen officials take this route and while they get some good training, they also get lots of the local "expert's" bad habits too.

Now officials that have been around the block and have advanced far and are looking for other experiences and training, the "cash" cow camps might be what they need to learn. Those officials might have already outdone the folks in their area and need "advanced" training.

Why limit yourself from the beginning? Go to the best instructors you can find. Why not learn the best way first instead of unlearning at a later date? So often at the camps I go to I hear guys "yeah, butting" the clinicians because they were taught another (inferior) way of doing things. The "yeah, butting" is counter-productive and makes the clinicians not want to work with them.

It was for the "training" of younger officials. Newer officials need different attention. They do not need to be thrown in with officials that are only their to get hired and do not care to make others look good. They need to be where other officials are there to learn and that to me is a better environment.

I don't agree. I found it very helpful to work (as a new official) with guys who had lots of experience and could help me on the court. I never got a chance to work with guys like this at home (I am speaking specifically of my partners on the court), maybe they had to carry me through some of the games, but I learned a lot about refereeing and also about being a lead official--how to handle your crew, dealing with coaches, etc. I watched what they did and took mental notes. That was some of the most valuable experience I got at these "big time" camps--stuff I couldn't learn at local camps because the resources weren't there.

For officials like you and I stripes, we might feel more confrontable in a "cash" camp. For the newer guys that might not be the best thing. I know I would have been intimidated earlier in my career. Most of us would be.

Peace

Maybe people would be intimidated. Honestly, I was there to learn and intimidation was never a thought. I was excited to learn from guys who work deep into the D1 tournament and to work with guys who already worked D1 and other college ball. I wasn't worried that I was the weak link, I wanted to learn from these guys and I honestly believe that the experience has helped me to get where I am with my officiating today.

Too often I see local guys who, for whatever reason, refuse to go to a better quality camp. They don't push themselves and they don't improve and they can't figure out why they don't get varsity games and why other guys continually pass them by. They don't try a little harder than the others and they won't break out of their comfort zone to stretch themselves. In my experience, those who will try harder and do more are the ones who get ahead in reffing.

JMO.

[Edited by stripes on May 13th, 2002 at 09:31 AM]

[JRutledge]

If you want to pay the $400 to just be appart of the camp. Then pay about another $400 or more for travel and room and board and you may or may not learn anything, be my guest. You might not ever see these people again. You might not ever get the same ideals from the people that you just went to camp with in your local area, and now this young officials is going to use things that they people that will "actually" be making decisions about their future may or may not agree with.

I have been on this board for a long time, I have been taught things very different from what others have in different parts of the country. Forunately I have been in an area that is exposed to officials from all levels. From the NBA to Pee Wee Leagues (or the pros in the other sports that I do too). I know that everyone is or will not be expose to that kind of teaching on a regular basis. Especially because everyone is not right next to a big city as large as the one I live, and this is where more officials have higher level officials located in their areas.

If someone has money to burn or potentially throw away, then they can go to those kind of camps all they want. But for those of us that spending nearly a $1000 in expenses to go to one camp that they might not get very much personal attention in, might be too much for most. Stay local and get what you need from the people that will actually be assigning you games and evaluating you as an official. I think that is better than having to take a plane or drive for days just to see people that you may or may not have to deal with. I would never say never go, there is a time and there is a place, but for someone that is just starting out, unless this camp is in your back yard and right around where you live, save your money.

This debate is no different than saying buy an SUV over a regualar car. There are +'s and -'s to everything. You just have to decide what works for you. I am a veteran and I cannot still find any reason at this stage to go to these camps when in the end it will only be throwing money at those camp directors rather than getting hired or really taking away something that I can use at home. I personally think you are better off doing some extensive reading and applying it to court with people that will actually see you during the year.

Peace

[stripes]

Originally posted by JRutledge
This debate is no different than saying buy an SUV over a regualar car. There are +'s and -'s to everything. You just have to decide what works for you. I am a veteran and I cannot still find any reason at this stage to go to these camps when in the end it will only be throwing money at those camp directors rather than getting hired or really taking away something that I can use at home. I personally think you are better off doing some extensive reading and applying it to court with people that will actually see you during the year.

Peace

Jeff makes a good point here there are +'s and -'s to every type of camp. He and I just disagree about what the right path is. Do some investigative work of your own to determine what is right for you. Personally, I use money that I earn reffing to pay for all of my camps, uniforms, etc. so I never really "miss" the money. It is set aside for that purpose and I have never really felt like I haven't gotten my moneys worth at the camps. I have spent over $1000 on a camp before, but only 1 time and it was an outstanding experience.

I have always been able to take things from the camps home to use in my everyday games. Reading is nice, but doing something and having it corrected right away is something else entirely. I have heard so many guys say that they got advice that they had never heard before and they had been to lots of local camps. I guess I just won't be swayed about the value of the "big time" camps.

Good luck to all campers this summer.

[JRutledge]

I totally agree with your last statment. You have to make efforts to investigate any camp and find out what works for you. Every person will have different ideals or expectations for what to do and where to go.

Peace

[KingTripleJump]

I just finished a "local chapter" camp. It was the 2nd year they put it on and I have gone both years. I got some great feedback from the varsity assignment sec. and some guys who ref college ball. (Juco's and some D1.) (I am told to be expecting a varsity schedule in the fall.)

They told me that I should consider going to other camps that are a step above this one. (the one I just finished.) They told me of some good college camps and I would get great feedback from other officials. I don't know if I should go because I am so young. I would feel a bit intimidated by the older guys. But I assure you, I can hang with the best of them!

[stripes]

Originally posted by KingTripleJump
I don't know if I should go because I am so young. I would feel a bit intimidated by the older guys. But I assure you, I can hang with the best of them!

If you can "hang with the best of them", why would you be intimidated? If you are good enough, you deserve to be with them.

Go absolutely!

[Kelvin green]

I will jump in the fray...
I will lean towards local camps for a new guy for a couple of reasons.
Although I agree that you can get a perspective, and might learn stuff you have to unlearn, the people who run the local camps are the ones who can make or break a local career. and you need to use their "bad stuff" to make it.

I know from first hand and others around me, sometimes the things you learn at the advanced camps wont help you because people give you the "deer in the headlights" look when you talk about things. I have learned things as many as 10 years ago that people still look at you like youre a moron.

I know a couple of officials in our area who have gone to big name camps (Coast to Coast) and are top notch officials, and they learned stuff that helped them move up to JC and pro ball, but did it help them in the high school association? nope! labelled as "pro officials" and they have had a heckuva time getting over that...


New officials need basics, basics, basics. They need the information and skills to ref a lw level ball game.

For example I worked this weekend with a newer and was refereeing some varsity boys at a clinic this past weekend.

He had no clue about primary calls. He had no idea that when it starts in your primary and goes to the basket that he has to take it, particularly when I am off ball with the big low-post players. He needed to work on basics like the 3 point signal and the way he turned his body on the floor..
he also neede to figure out that when a ball bounces off a defender's foot it is not a kick.

Tha's where a local camp comes in, you can work with the guys like that. so they dont screw someone else up in a game

[DrakeM]

"I know a couple of officials in our area who have gone to big name camps (Coast to Coast) and are top notch officials, and they learned stuff that helped them move up to JC and pro ball, but did it help them in the high school association? nope! labelled as "pro officials" and they have had a heckuva time getting over that..."

Why, whoever would you be talking about?

[Kelvin green]

I am not sure! I'll let you figure that one out.