Clock Situation?????

[Johnny Ringo]

Situation: 24 seconds left in the game.

Sideline out-of-bounds to Team A. Ball inbounded and there was a shot attempt by Team A, followed by an offensive rebound for Team A and then a 3 pt FG attempt by Team A that was missed and rebounded by Team B.

The clock never started. This was not noticed by the officials until the player 1 for Team A as in the act of attempting a 3.

An educated guess says that 9 seconds of action had been played.

What do you do as an official in this situation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Nothing under NFHS and NCAA Mens rules......

There is no rules justification that will allow you to take any time off the clock.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Situation: 24 seconds left in the game.

Sideline out-of-bounds to Team A. Ball inbounded and there was a shot attempt by Team A, followed by an offensive rebound for Team A and then a 3 pt FG attempt by Team A that was missed and rebounded by Team B.

The clock never started. This was not noticed by the officials until the player 1 for Team A as in the act of attempting a 3.

An educated guess says that 9 seconds of action had been played.

What do you do as an official in this situation?

Was your "educated guess" based on some type of visible count????

If not, discount your guess and have a talk with your partners, where you might get some solid evidence of elapsed time. Also have a chat with the folks at the table. Had they been accurate up to this point?

In the absence of any definite knowledge, just play on and keep one eye on the clock...

Lesson(s) learned....




Later

[Johnny Ringo]

There was a disscussion and there were two closely guarded to 3 counts (that computes to at least 6). Anyway ... what should have be done?

Shold the play have been whistled dead when the player was attempting the 3? and then went back to 24 seconds and start over?

Should the play have continued with the rebound and told the clock operator to start the clock with no stoppage?

[Adam]

If the team is attacking the basket, let it play out. If they're not, blow it dead and discuss. At most, you can take 6 seconds off. Some will argue that since you don't have definite knowledge of all the time that should come off, you can't take a portion of it off even if you know for sure at least 6 seconds elapsed. There is no common sense that can be used on this play.

I disagree that a "visual" count is required. As long as you keep a count in your head, it does not need to be visual. Although visual is preferred.

[Grail]

When the official blew his/her whistle, you can make adjustments to the clock, IF you have definite knowledge of the proper amount of time to remove.

Definite knowledge is not, "well we had 2 three second counts, and don't know anything else.

Based on the play you described, Team B has the ball at the nearest spot to where they were when the whistle blew. 24 should still be showing on the clock. Do-overs are not supported in the rules.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

There was a disscussion and there were two closely guarded to 3 counts (that computes to at least 6). Anyway ... what should have be done?

Shold the play have been whistled dead when the player was attempting the 3? and then went back to 24 seconds and start over?

Should the play have continued with the rebound and told the clock operator to start the clock with no stoppage?

If I see a timing error, I am likely not going to blow it dead mid-shot-attempt, as this is attacking the basket, imo. I'll kill it on the rebound, though: for both A or B. Yes, I would take 6 seconds off, plus the amount of time that I visibly counted after I noticed the clock stoppage.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Grail

When the official blew his/her whistle, you can make adjustments to the clock, IF you have definite knowledge of the proper amount of time to remove.

Definite knowledge is not, "well we had 2 three second counts, and don't know anything else.

Based on the play you described, Team B has the ball at the nearest spot to where they were when the whistle blew. 24 should still be showing on the clock. Do-overs are not supported in the rules.

This is less accurate than setting the clock to 18 seconds. Why would you not want to be the most accurate that you can be?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Grail

When the official blew his/her whistle, you can make adjustments to the clock, IF you have definite knowledge of the proper amount of time to remove.

Definite knowledge is not, "well we had 2 three second counts, and don't know anything else.

Based on the play you described, Team B has the ball at the nearest spot to where they were when the whistle blew. 24 should still be showing on the clock. Do-overs are not supported in the rules.

Dude, right on queue.

If you have definite knowledge 6 seconds have elapsed, I think you should take 6 seconds off. I'm putting the ball in with 18 seconds in this case, minus any time I counted after that (as the Juggler said).

Once I notice the clock hasn't started, I'm giving a visual count until I can kill the play myself.

[Johnny Ringo]

OK ... this is all good. But, what would you do or what does the rule say to do in this situation?

It was first noticed that the clock had not started when Team A was attempting a 3 ... "you are the ref" - what do you do in this circumstance from this point on?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

OK ... this is all good. But, what would you do or what does the rule say to do in this situation?

It was first noticed that the clock had not started when Team A was attempting a 3 ... "you are the ref" - what do you do in this circumstance from this point on?

I allow the shot because it is attacking the basket. The play is killed when someone obtains possession of the reound, or the shot goes in. I check with my P what definite kowledge s/he has. I add his answer with mine, subtracting the union time we might have. I tell both coaches what we have, let each one ask a question, then instruct the timer to reset the clock to x seconds. They we admin the throw-in and go from there. When the throw-in happens, I tell the players how much time is on the clock.

[Johnny Ringo]

Juggling Ref ... that's what happened and went well. My last question is do the rules support that or say something else? Thanks!

[Johnny Ringo]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I tell both coaches what we have, let each one ask a question, then instruct the timer to reset the clock to x seconds. They we admin the throw-in and go from there. When the throw-in happens, I tell the players how much time is on the clock.

An earlier post said there is no rule that supports taking time off the clock?

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

An earlier post said there is no rule that supports taking time off the clock?

In the absence of any definite knowledge

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Juggling Ref ... that's what happened and went well. My last question is do the rules support that or say something else? Thanks!

The rules only allow you to take time off that you "know" should have elapsed. Any and all counts are "known" elements and can be used to determine the time to be removed. There is nothing that says the counts must be continuous nor that they account for all of the missing time but you can't remove the time that was not under a count.