Coach out of Box?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What does that have to do with a coach being so far out of her box?

In fairness to Z, I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think he was replying to my "screw the timeout request" comment.

IOW, I don't think he was saying that you shouldn't T the coach for being in the wrong box. He was merely saying that somebody should always be able to check for the request before it gets to the point where the coach is running into the backcourt.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Absolutely FALSE!!! There is always an official on the side of the court opposite the table. But if the play is on the endline opposite the coach's bench, that "opposite" official is looking AWAY from the bench (particularly if the play is on his/her side of the court). This is a triple-team near the endline. There's no way that the "opposite" official can look at the bench without sacrificing coverage on the play.

That official will see the head coach that's trying to call a TO from the opposing team's bench area though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In fairness to Z, I don't think it has anything to do with that. I think he was replying to my "screw the timeout request" comment.

IOW, I don't think he was saying that you shouldn't T the coach for being in the wrong box. He was merely saying that somebody should always be able to check for the request before it gets to the point where the coach is running into the backcourt.

That was my point. It's irrelevant whether you shoulda, coulda, woulda. You have to deal with what actually happened. And what happened is that you've got a coach yelling at you from the OTHER team's bench area. Don't blame the officials if they can't get a TO request in situations like this because the situation has dictated that they can't turn away from the action.

[Tio]

If you've already T'd the coach of the opposing team, then I think your hands have been tied. However, the action needs to be blatant and obvious on tape, without a shadow of a doubt. Sometimes I wonder if the actions of coaches described on this board are 100% accurate. :> I do not believe this was the scenario the original poster mentioned.

Second, I spend more time with the NCAA rules, but I believe an NFHS coach may stand to request a timeout once they have been belted. I may be wrong, so someone please correct me if so.

I am obviously in the minority on this board with my philosophy. I have found that the most successful officials are the ones who can accurately apply the rules. This includes realizing there are "gray" areas of the rulebook subject to interpretation. Great discussion though......

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Tio

If you've already T'd the coach of the opposing team, then I think your hands have been tied. However, the action needs to be blatant and obvious on tape, without a shadow of a doubt. Sometimes I wonder if the actions of coaches described on this board are 100% accurate. :> I do not believe this was the scenario the original poster mentioned.

Second, I spend more time with the NCAA rules, but I believe an NFHS coach may stand to request a timeout once they have been belted. I may be wrong, so someone please correct me if so.

I am obviously in the minority on this board with my philosophy. I have found that the most successful officials are the ones who can accurately apply the rules. This includes realizing there are "gray" areas of the rulebook subject to interpretation. Great discussion though......

I deal with both rule sets. In NFHS the coach may stand to request a T/O once seatbelted.

But my point is that we shouldn't have to put so many variables in play to make a decision. Say it was an NCAA game in which this occurred, would it matter if the coach in question had previously received a warning or T for being outside the coach's box?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Tio

However, the action needs to be blatant and obvious on tape, without a shadow of a doubt.

Tio, what could be more blatant and obvious on tape thas a head coach standing in the OTHER team's bench area?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Having said that, if there were 10 evaluators/observers at this game, 5 would probably tell you to call the T immediately and the other 5 would say it was "good game management" to not call the T...but imo, if we follow the rules, there really isn't much that the assignor or evaluators can ding us for. I can justify to everyone involved why I DID call the T based on the rules...I can't use any rules basis to justify why I did NOT call the T.

Frankly, this is all I needed to change my opinion. I can't argue with this.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That was my point. It's irrelevant whether you shoulda, coulda, woulda. You have to deal with what actually happened. And what happened is that you've got a coach yelling at you from the OTHER team's bench area. Don't blame the officials if they can't get a TO request in situations like this because the situation has dictated that they can't turn away from the action.

Really hard for me to deal with what actually happened when I hear these kinds of stories. With 3 officials on the floor, we should never miss a coach wanting a time-out, especially in a situation like this when we know one might be coming. There is always someone with enough peripheral that they can see the coach gesturing madly. If this happened at state, you'd have to call the T. And the entire crew should be expecting to work the consolation bracket for the rest of the tournament.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I do not believe this was the scenario the original poster mentioned.

Really? Based on what? Then why respond to it? I've found it's best to answer a scenario as if it is correct as described.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Tio, what could be more blatant and obvious on tape thas a head coach standing in the OTHER team's bench area?

Are going to discuss Eliot Spitzer again? No? OK.

The idea that T's have to be the very last resort - that the coach has to blatantly and obviously be misbehaving, that officials have to swallow hard and deal with it some other way without taking care of busines - that type of thinking was thrown out the window with the POE on bench decorum. BTW this has gotten so out of hand that people are even coming here to this forum to post that we need to have a damn good reason to take back to the assignor for T'ing an 8th grade kid. Can you imagine that?

This is nuts.

By approachable, don't be thin skinned, be professional (where have I heard that before?) but when you need to take care of business just do it. Because if you don't they will walk all over you.

In the OP I don't know how you calmly walk the coach away from his oppoenent's bench and back across the midline to his bench without T'ing him. I really don't. Do you think the OTHER coach (assuming he knows what he's doing) is going to let you get away with that? Talk about game management... now you're in a situation where you let coach A off without a T and you have to take all sorts of BS from coach B because of it.

yeah, good idea.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Tio

Second, I spend more time with the NCAA rules...

Then it really, really really becomes a no-brainer. The NCAA made bench decorum and coaches being out of their boxes one of the major POE's this year. That coach being in the other coaches box had better get rung up.

And for zebraman - I agree that it should not have been missed. Pne of the officials should have seen the request...but you know as well as I do that sometimes we get focused on the immediate play and hope our partners cover everything else for us for a couple seconds. But if they don't, we still whack that coach...and then we work the early game on Saturday and go home!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zebraman

If this happened at state, you'd have to call the T. And the entire crew should be expecting to work the consolation bracket for the rest of the tournament.

With all due respect, that's boolsh!t! If they didn't call the "T", I might agree with it.

The officials were concentrating on the play. That's what they're supposed to be doing. If they miss a TO call out that was out of their vision, too bad. Having that happen occasionally is a byproduct of a rule that was never well thought out in the first place.

[oldschool]

Being the original poster it was described as it actually happened. There is no exaggeration involved. Actually the crew did T up the other coach( not the one out of the box) later in the 2nd overtime for complaining about a few calls. Game was decided at that point and coach was looking for it to vent.

[Raymond]

Coach's box privileges. That privilege is lost for certain offenses. One of those offenses would include standing in the opposing team's coach's box.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coach's box privileges. That privilege is lost for certain offenses. One of those offenses would include standing in the opposing team's coach's box.

Not to pick a nit, but "Coaching box." Wouldn't want the coaches to think they own that box.