Free Throw Violation- Shooter with ball

[lpbreeze]

So I don't know the rules too well on this other than the traditional violations leaving the lane early, etc. For a shooter.
He had the ball dribbled and then put the ball up and pushed it upward to practice his shot. A couple of feet straight up above his head. Ball came down, caught it and then shot the ft. I called a violation. I've seen players practice their shot but without the ball. I'm fairly sure I got this right but I wanted to check. high school.

Also, does anyone have a link on the difference for backcourt NCAA vs H.S? ball off D player than off offensive into backcourt that is a violation but not in the NBA. Is it in NCAA?

[Adam]

Not a violation.

[lpbreeze]

Is there a cite for that? I swear this is a violation in the NBA but I'm not sure for HS and NCAA. For me it should be a violation because he made a shooting motion with the ball---edit. perhaps you were referring to the second part. But back on the Ft. Could a player pretend to throw the ball at the basket if it isn't a violation to draw the other team into a lane violation? I called a violation because the other team did step into the lane.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

Is there a cite for that? I swear this is a violation in the NBA but I'm not sure for HS and NCAA. For me it should be a violation because he made a shooting motion with the ball---edit. perhaps you were referring to the second part. But back on the Ft. Could a player pretend to throw the ball at the basket if it isn't a violation to draw the other team into a lane violation? I called a violation because the other team did step into the lane.

The only way I'd call a violation in that instance is if the action drew his opponent into the lane. Otherwise, it's nothing.

Oh, and it's much more appropriate to provide a citation about how this is a violation, rather than looking for one to explicitly allow it. If it's not against the rules, it's legal.

[lpbreeze]

Really? I just can't understand that. So a player is allowed to do any type of shooting motion, even releasing the ball as long as its not toward the rim. Or fake a toss at the rim as long as it doesn't draw the other team into a violation? Well if its not in the rules it should be. I just think you can't make a shooting motion with the ball that doesn't go to the rim

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

Really? I just can't understand that. So a player is allowed to do any type of shooting motion, even releasing the ball as long as its not toward the rim. Or fake a toss at the rim as long as it doesn't draw the other team into a violation? Well if its not in the rules it should be. I just think you can't make a shooting motion with the ball

Why not? It obviously isn't the player's actual shot, so why should an official care?

[lpbreeze]

Does anyone know if this is an NBA or NCAA violation. I would be shocked if it isn't an NBA violation because I've swear I've seen it called.

[jdw3018]

I'm not an expert on NCAA rules, but as far as I know there's nothing in their rules that would make this a violation.

As far as the NBA, I swear I've never seen a violation called on a FT shooter.

[lpbreeze]

back to "if the action drew his opponent into the lane"

So could a player do a pre ft where he motions the ball toward the rim not releasing it. Or releasing it straight up as in the OP. But no opponent steps into the lane say after multiple ft attempts. But then late in the game even though the shooter has shot fts before, an opponent is drawn into the lane? If I were a coach and a shooter is doing that I could tell my players to step into the lane to draw a violation on the shooter. Then of course, the other coach would be saying why would something that was legal before suddenly be illegal?

[jdw3018]

It's up to you to judge whether the action drew the player into the lane or he intentionally went in early. And if a player has done that all game, and then late in a close game a player goes in early (especially in NFHS where players have to wait for the rim) I'm going to err on the side of the free thrower.

If he changes his routine and someone comes in early, that's different. If it happens on his first FT attempt of the game, you have to make a judgement call.

[lpbreeze]

Ok but I just wish there was a rule against that type of thing. As for the NBA where player go in on the release and often they do before the shot I'm 99% positive I've seen it called. Maybe it was Karl Malone or someone who held the ball up and did a little hitch or fake

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lpbreeze

Ok but I just wish there was a rule against that type of thing. As for the NBA where player go in on the release and often they do before the shot I'm 99% positive I've seen it called. Maybe it was Karl Malone or someone who held the ball up and did a little hitch or fake

If someone "faked" it, I totally believe it. It definitely is different when guys are going in on the release...but it doesn't mean there is an explicit rule against the motion. It's simply a rule against drawing an opponent into the lane by faking.

[lpbreeze]

and one other thing that bothered me was the player saying he had done it before in other games and it hadn't been called. But then it is a violation in new game because the other team went into the lane.
I shall take this up with President of Basketball. who is... hmmmmm the dude with the highlighters on ESPN.

[Adam]

The cite you're looking for is rule 9-1-1b. "The free thrower shall not fake a try, nor shall any player in a marked lane space fake to cause an opponent to violate."

This is a hold-over rule from when players (except the shooter) could enter the lane upon the release of the try. The intent of the rule is to prohibit the shooter from deceiving the defense into a violation.

Since the defense can't enter until the ball hits the rim anyway, this fake should not have any affect on them. This is why it's generally allowed.

At the NCAA and NBA levels, players are allowed to enter the lane on the release, so the fake is probably illegal there as well.

[lpbreeze]

Well thanks but this is one that I just can't agree with. It is illegal but a ref will only blow it as illegal if it causes a lane violation. I just think it would be better off to call a violation even without a lane violation