AP question

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

The wording of this play indicates a jumpball whether B1 cleanly takes the ball from A1 or not. Am I reading this correctly, is it always a jump ball? Or can B1 take the ball away from A1 with no jump ball.

Of course B1 can take the ball away.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course B1 can take the ball away.

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

I have seen a case where the player out of bounds making the throw in, places his hand out in front of him, inbounds, palm up so that the ball is simply resting in his hand. If the defensive player then slaps the ball out of his hand, that wouldn't possibly be a held ball, would it?

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I have seen a case where the player out of bounds making the throw in, places his hand out in front of him, inbounds, palm up so that the ball is simply resting in his hand. If the defensive player then slaps the ball out of his hand, that wouldn't possibly be a held ball, would it?

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

I think the question was Socratic/rhetorical.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Not in my judgement. I presume you are not wanting me to be your definitive source, what does the rule/case play tell you?

I was simply refuting your claim that by definition taking the ball away from the inbounder when they hold it on the inbounds side of the line is always a held ball. I am assuming, based on the previous rule citation, even though the ball is slapped out of the inbounder's hand and play goes on from there, the arrow is not reversed because the thrower never released the ball, and therefore the throw-in never ended. Seems weird, but that's how it seems to play out.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I was simply refuting your claim that by definition taking the ball away from the inbounder when they hold it on the inbounds side of the line is always a held ball. I am assuming, based on the previous rule citation, even though the ball is slapped out of the inbounder's hand and play goes on from there, the arrow is not reversed because the thrower never released the ball, and therefore the throw-in never ended. Seems weird, but that's how it seems to play out.

Semantics, but I didn't claim, I questioned.

7.6.4 SITUATION F: Thrower A1 inadvertently holds the ball through the end-line plane during a throw-in. B1 is able to get his/her hands on the ball and A1 cannot pull it back.

The case play does not say A1 and B1 are in a tug-of-war but I think it assumes it. It could occurr where the ball is cleanly snatched from A1, yet B1 got their hands on the ball and A1 could not pull it back (meeting the terms of 7.6.4).

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I agree with you, but the case play does not seem to allow for it. If Bb1 gets hands on ball and A1 can't pull it back then jumpball.
That very scenario takes place when B1 takes the ball from A1.

Unless B1 just yanks it away from A1 suddenly, and hustles away. In that case, the throw-in ends legally.

Also, what Smitty says is correct.

And BTW, if A2 removes the ball from A1's hand in any of these ways, it's illegal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Unless B1 just yanks it away from A1 suddenly, and hustles away. In that case, the throw-in ends legally.

How does the throwin end?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How does the throwin end?

Ball is touched legally in-bounds.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Ball is touched legally in-bounds.

But it was never passed. Definition states a passed ball has to be touched for the throwin to end.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But it was never passed. Definition states a passed ball has to be touched for the throwin to end.

But it doesn't have to be passed. A passed ball has to be touched, but the ball doesn't have to be passed.