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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 10:57am
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Q From 1st Year: Scrubs are comin' in the game.

How about this....

JV or Freshman level (this is all I have done)
Game is pretty much decided (15 to 20 point lead, 3 or 4 minutes to go)

Into the game come a fresh crop of gangly youths, who are clearly not the top players on either of the respective teams.

My approach is to let these guys play. I am going to call fouls, and nothing is going to get out of hand, but my approach would be to not be as stringent on travelling, illegal dribble, etc in an effort to have the game flow and let these players have a chance to get shots and score some points -- make some plays.

Again, these are Freshman/JV games. Is this a common approach? What are the philosophical issues here? "Travel in the first period is a travel in the fourth period" takes a backseat to letting the kids play.

Thoughts?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:06am
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I have no problem with this in the scenario you describe and I would hope that the coaches understand what you are doing...that said you still have to get the obvious stuff and as you stated you have to get the fouls, but letting a shuffle go here or there isn't hurting anything...
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_rumperee
How about this....

JV or Freshman level (this is all I have done)
My approach is to let these guys play. I am going to call fouls, and nothing is going to get out of hand, but my approach would be to not be as stringent on travelling, illegal dribble, etc in an effort to have the game flow and let these players have a chance to get shots and score some points -- make some plays.

Again, these are Freshman/JV games. Is this a common approach? What are the philosophical issues here? "Travel in the first period is a travel in the fourth period" takes a backseat to letting the kids play.

Thoughts?
Just call the game and quit trying to force your own personal ideas of the way that things ought to be onto the participants.

There is nowayinhell a first year official should even be thinking about things like this.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:11am
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There are 2 schools on this.

1. The losing team has given up, the winners have declared victory, let's leep it under control but not prolong this any more than necessary (what you describe).

2. Every player on the floor deserves their time. The scrubs would like to show what they can do and maybe get some more time. The coaches want to see if there are any diamonds at the end of the bench to work with. Ref the game to the end, regardless.

As a first year guy with questions i would say you should use #2. Blow your whistle to the bitter end. At the very least you never know who's in the stands watching you, so do your best always. Also,, you never know when the losing team will suddenly come back and make a game out of it. Then what? You go back to how you called it before? Not very consistent.

As you develop you'll get a better feel for how to incorporate reffing the scoreboard into your game. That's not what you need to worry about right now IMO.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_rumperee
How about this....

JV or Freshman level (this is all I have done)
Game is pretty much decided (15 to 20 point lead, 3 or 4 minutes to go)

Into the game come a fresh crop of gangly youths, who are clearly not the top players on either of the respective teams.

My approach is to let these guys play. I am going to call fouls, and nothing is going to get out of hand, but my approach would be to not be as stringent on travelling, illegal dribble, etc in an effort to have the game flow and let these players have a chance to get shots and score some points -- make some plays.

Again, these are Freshman/JV games. Is this a common approach? What are the philosophical issues here? "Travel in the first period is a travel in the fourth period" takes a backseat to letting the kids play.

Thoughts?
If you are going to slightly adjust your tipping point for calling the eensy-teensy violation things, you do it on the basis that you are watching more closely for contact and don't see the ETVT's. You watch more closely for contact because kids at this level are less likely to play cleanly, and less likely to play through. You don't necessarily call it tighter, just pay more attention. "Let 'em play" is blue language in my dictionary. "Watching closely for illegal A/D" is good game management. It's all in the verbiage.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:18am
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Other good points made so far about working til the end for the sake of your own practice. It is true that this IS a good time for you to work on your own recognition with things like travels, other violations b/c there is a good chance that you will see a few of them...but if you are comfortable with your own abilities in this regard, then loosening up a bit on these violations isn't a terrible thing in this situation IMO...
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 11:37am
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Why do you think you're doing anyone any favors by not calling violations? At the high school level, if these kids have any hope of getting more playing time, they have to be able to play the game. Not calling traveling, illegal dribble, etc. is not helping them get better. At any level in high school, you should call the games consistently, start to finish, for their sake as well as your own.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:15pm
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I think there are many that feel "loosen up on the calls" means the same as "let's relax and not call as much". Think of it from a player's perspective - just because the game's decided do you run your offensive sets a little slower? Do you make your cuts a little less sharp? Do you decide not to play hard anymore, because, after all, the game's over? I would think not. And that's the same attitude we need to take as officials. If anything, I've found because the talent level has lowered somewhat the game becomes a little harder to officiate. Therefore we need to be just as sharp, if not more so, than at the beginning. So, call it the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_rumperee
Q From 1st Year:...
Psst...hey, Dan, do you understand what ca_rumperee means by this? Just checkin'.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Psst...hey, Dan, do you understand what ca_rumperee means by this? Just checkin'.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:37pm
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 12:52pm
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There is nowayinhell a first year official should even be thinking about things like this.
This is nonsense. It shows a first year official has some awareness of how the game should be worked.

Just keep in mind that a 15 point lead with 3 minutes left CAN be overcome. However, if the losing team's coach has emptied the bench, then you are likely safe. Get all the felonies and serious misdemeanors and the calls that HAVE to be made (obvious hacks, falling down with the ball, etc.), and be very judicious on the rest. This translates to protecting the shooter, getting the other fouls you need to get, but unless he uses a clearly illegal move to get around a defender (palming, traveling, etc.) and gains a big advantage, we're probably going to let that go.

I will say it depends on your circumstances. If you've had a good game with no real problems, doing this is safe. If you've had problems, you have to be aware of control first hand. As long as you keep control of the game, you should be fine.

Last edited by Texas Aggie; Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:56pm.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 01:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
Get all the felonies and serious misdemeanors and the calls that HAVE to be made (obvious hacks, falling down with the ball, etc.), and pretty much let the rest go. This translates to protecting the shooter, getting the other fouls you need to get, but unless he uses a clearly illegal move to get around a defender (palming, traveling, etc.) and gains a big advantage, we're going to let that go.
Is this different than your way of thinking in the first half? Is there a call you would make in the first half that you wouldn't make at this point in the game? If so, why?
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 04:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
This is nonsense. It shows a first year official has some awareness of how the game should be worked.

Just keep in mind that a 15 point lead with 3 minutes left CAN be overcome. However, if the losing team's coach has emptied the bench, then you are likely safe. Get all the felonies and serious misdemeanors and the calls that HAVE to be made (obvious hacks, falling down with the ball, etc.), and be very judicious on the rest. This translates to protecting the shooter, getting the other fouls you need to get, but unless he uses a clearly illegal move to get around a defender (palming, traveling, etc.) and gains a big advantage, we're probably going to let that go.

I will say it depends on your circumstances. If you've had a good game with no real problems, doing this is safe. If you've had problems, you have to be aware of control first hand. As long as you keep control of the game, you should be fine.
A voice of reason, finally.
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 04:29pm
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Originally Posted by Refneck
A voice of reason, finally.
Ok, then I'll ask you the same questions I asked Aggie:

Is this different than your way of thinking in the first half? Is there a call you would make in the first half that you wouldn't make at this point in the game? If so, why?
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Old Fri Jan 11, 2008, 04:45pm
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Whenever you change the way you call the game based on who is on the floor and/or how much time is left you have reached a slippery-slope.

Our job is to fairly judge the game...period. When we start bending what we call based on game situations instead of what is happening we stop reacting to what is happening and start imposing ourselves into the game.
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