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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:39pm
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Jump ball??????

Shot goes up and there is a scrum for the rebound. From C I have a clear shot directly through the middle of the lane and can see that two whites have tied up the ball and are trying to pull it away from one another (and yes each moved both feet)...they are on L's side of the floor, but they have their backs to the L official. There is a blue player in the vicinity, he could possibly be reaching in with a hand, but he is positively, 100% not part of the tie-up...L blows it dead and calls a held ball. What would you have done from C?
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:41pm
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Hope no one else in the gym had the same view.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Shot goes up and there is a scrum for the rebound. From C I have a clear shot directly through the middle of the lane and can see that two whites have tied up the ball and are trying to pull it away from one another (and yes each moved both feet)...they are on L's side of the floor, but they have their backs to the L official. There is a blue player in the vicinity, he could possibly be reaching in with a hand, but he is positively, 100% not part of the tie-up...L blows it dead and calls a held ball. What would you have done from C?

Nothing.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP
Hope no one else in the gym had the same view.
Unfortunately the blue coach had a pretty good look himself so he of course jumped up off the bench with a "WHAT??!?!??!?!" By this time I was already on my way over to L, I just pulled him aside and said that I saw two whites on the ball, did he really have a blue player on it - not changing his call, just letting him know what I saw. He said "really?" and immediately changed it to a travel...this was early in the first half and unfortunately I forgot to bring it up at halftime or post-game to get a more thorough explanation of what he was thinking...I have never done this before, and I guess I could have let him die with it, but I chose to make us all look better...not sure that I would do it again, certainly wouldn't do it with a strong partner which I wouldn't classify this individual as...
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:52pm
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good job

you did just what I would have done in that situation...give him information, then support whatever decision he makes..
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Unfortunately the blue coach had a pretty good look himself so he of course jumped up off the bench with a "WHAT??!?!??!?!" By this time I was already on my way over to L, I just pulled him aside and said that I saw two whites on the ball, did he really have a blue player on it - not changing his call, just letting him know what I saw. He said "really?" and immediately changed it to a travel...this was early in the first half and unfortunately I forgot to bring it up at halftime or post-game to get a more thorough explanation of what he was thinking...I have never done this before, and I guess I could have let him die with it, but I chose to make us all look better...not sure that I would do it again, certainly wouldn't do it with a strong partner which I wouldn't classify this individual as...
Sounds like you got by with it. Without seeing the play I'm thinking I would've stayed away from that play. Especially since your not sure if the blue shirt got the ball or not.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Unfortunately the blue coach had a pretty good look himself so he of course jumped up off the bench with a "WHAT??!?!??!?!" By this time I was already on my way over to L, I just pulled him aside and said that I saw two whites on the ball, did he really have a blue player on it - not changing his call, just letting him know what I saw. He said "really?" and immediately changed it to a travel...this was early in the first half and unfortunately I forgot to bring it up at halftime or post-game to get a more thorough explanation of what he was thinking...I have never done this before, and I guess I could have let him die with it, but I chose to make us all look better...not sure that I would do it again, certainly wouldn't do it with a strong partner which I wouldn't classify this individual as...
I don't have a problem with what you did at all as long as you were 100% certain.
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:53pm
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I might offer information to the official that there is no way that could have been a jump ball because opponents did not have the ball. That would depend on game situation, my angle on the play and my knowledge of the official making the call. But I would lean towards doing nothing. You cannot save your partner from every stupid call.

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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 02:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Sounds like you got by with it. Without seeing the play I'm thinking I would've stayed away from that play. Especially since your not sure if the blue shirt got the ball or not.

I think everyone in the gym knew it was not a held ball except this official. I actually believe after working the rest of the game with him that he blew the whistle just to avoid having to officiate the action...seemed like the type of official who would just make the most convenient call available, he just chose a really bad time to do it in this case b/c the play was basically naked and everyone saw it...even the white coach didn't make a peep as we went the other way...
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 03:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Shot goes up and there is a scrum for the rebound. From C I have a clear shot directly through the middle of the lane and can see that two whites have tied up the ball and are trying to pull it away from one another (and yes each moved both feet)...they are on L's side of the floor, but they have their backs to the L official. There is a blue player in the vicinity, he could possibly be reaching in with a hand, but he is positively, 100% not part of the tie-up...L blows it dead and calls a held ball. What would you have done from C?

kbilla:

From the description that you gave of the play, only one official should be putting air in his whistle and that is the C. The C is the only official that can see the whole play. The L does not have a clue as to what is happening because he cannot see the ball. If an official cannot see that ball then he cannot make a ruling.

A few years ago I remember reading an article either in Referee or the pay side of Officiaitng.com about to officiate held balls and the key to making the correct call is to see the ball. In your play, the L could not see the play but the C could and is the official that should have been making the call PERIOD.

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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 03:28pm
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MTD, Clear some space in your mailbox. I need to send a PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 03:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
kbilla:

From the description that you gave of the play, only one official should be putting air in his whistle and that is the C. The C is the only official that can see the whole play. The L does not have a clue as to what is happening because he cannot see the ball. If an official cannot see that ball then he cannot make a ruling.

A few years ago I remember reading an article either in Referee or the pay side of Officiaitng.com about to officiate held balls and the key to making the correct call is to see the ball. In your play, the L could not see the play but the C could and is the official that should have been making the call PERIOD.

MTD, Sr.
Very good point Mark, I would hope that if the play had gone on for another instant I would have blown it, but he blew the jump ball pretty quickly. If it isn't in my primary, I like to give that official the first shot at it, and I suppose in that instant it didn't register that he is screened and can't see the play...like I said I think he just blew it dead to avoid any further action from taking place which I don't like at all, officiate the whole play!

Do you think rushing in on a call like this outside your primary sets you up for the dreaded jump ball/foul/TO double whistle? (Which is why I always start the jump ball signal with the the stop clock signal only even though it is not a prescribed mechanic)...
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I might offer information to the official that there is no way that could have been a jump ball because opponents did not have the ball. That would depend on game situation, my angle on the play and my knowledge of the official making the call. But I would lean towards doing nothing. You cannot save your partner from every stupid call.

Peace


I had a freshman game my first or second year and my partner after I reported a two shot foul and I was going my position, approached me and said " I don't think that she fouled her" I told him I don't care what you think let's go.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 07:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Shot goes up and there is a scrum for the rebound. From C I have a clear shot directly through the middle of the lane and can see that two whites have tied up the ball and are trying to pull it away from one another (and yes each moved both feet)...they are on L's side of the floor, but they have their backs to the L official. There is a blue player in the vicinity, he could possibly be reaching in with a hand, but he is positively, 100% not part of the tie-up...L blows it dead and calls a held ball. What would you have done from C?
kbilla,
Can you explain when you call traveling when people from the same team come down with the rebound, I've been calling traveling if either moves their feet once they're on the floor and they both are still hanging onto the ball. Is this right?
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Old Thu Jan 10, 2008, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudwhistle
kbilla,
Can you explain when you call traveling when people from the same team come down with the rebound, I've been calling traveling if either moves their feet once they're on the floor and they both are still hanging onto the ball. Is this right?
I'm not kbilla, but you have it correct. If two teammates both possess the ball, it is traveling if either one commits a traveling violation.
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