Coach talking trash!!

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Really? Just suspended? I don't think so.

Not that it really matters, but yes I've seen a lot of kids just get suspended for getting in a fight. In fact, expulsion would be pretty rare and only for an egregious repeat offense anywhere that I've been involved.

[Texas Aggie]

DON'T call a flagrant on this. Reserve that for things like throwing chairs or, if strictly verbal, where the coach's words are enticing their players into bad behavior -- OR, something very similar. This isn't one of those situations.

Simply T, then, if you feel its necessary to escalate it, go through your reporting system to the state.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Not that it really matters, but yes I've seen a lot of kids just get suspended for getting in a fight. In fact, expulsion would be pretty rare and only for an egregious repeat offense anywhere that I've been involved.

Okay. I'm pretty sure a kid would get expelled here, but then we rarely have fights around here that don't escalate into riots with weapons and damaged property. At least that what's my teenagers have been telling me.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

DON'T call a flagrant on this. Reserve that for things like throwing chairs or, if strictly verbal, where the coach's words are enticing their players into bad behavior -- OR, something very similar. This isn't one of those situations.

Simply T, then, if you feel its necessary to escalate it, go through your reporting system to the state.

Really? I'm willing to be persuaded, but the threatening nature of what he said seems pretty ugly to me, not just normal trash-talking. And I really don't like it coming from a coach to an opponent player.

I'd be interested in hearing from others, too. Seems like it's not cut and dried. WE all agree it's a T for either a player or a coach. Would anyone give a flagrant to a player for these kinds of trash talkings? How about a coach?

[Adam]

"you are a dirty player, have been for 3 years, someday you will get yours you big thug"

I don’t know if I'd call this flagrant or not, but I'd be tempted. I certainly wouldn't tell another official he was wrong for doing it. At minimum, it's an easy T with a very detailed report to the state. And yes, Nevada, I'd report this to the state even if they didn't require a report for each and every T.

I don’t know if this was a real threat so much as an abstract one, or a prediction. If it really sounded like a plausible threat, though, I think a flagrant would be in order. I'd have to be there and hear his tone of voice to determine that, though. I'd be more inclined to take it as a serious threat, though, than not. Again, if another official judged this to be a serious threat, I'd hope they'd go straight to flagrant.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it really sounded like a plausible threat, though, I think a flagrant would be in order. I'd have to be there and hear his tone of voice to determine that, though. I'd be more inclined to take it as a serious threat, though, than not. Again, if another official judged this to be a serious threat, I'd hope they'd go straight to flagrant.

I agree completely - any kind of threat deemed serious simply can't be tolerated.

[Back In The Saddle]

No punches were being thrown. So the comparisons to such completely outrageous behavior are false. This is not a legal issue or a workplace issue. This is a basketball game, and the offense in question is directly covered by the rules. The prescribed penalty for taunting an opponent is a T, not a flagrant T.

Now if you believe the coach was making an actual threat to this kis, that's an entirely different matter than taunting. That's assault and not only should the coach leave, but the police should probably get involved.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

No punches were being thrown. So the comparisons to such completely outrageous behavior are false. This is not a legal issue or a workplace issue. This is a basketball game, and the offense in question is directly covered by the rules. The prescribed penalty for taunting an opponent is a T, not a flagrant T.

Now if you believe the coach was making an actual threat to this kis, that's an entirely different matter than taunting. That's assault and not only should the coach leave, but the police should probably get involved.

Without being there and seeing it, there is no way to know if it would be flagrant or not. IMO, there certainly could be taunting that rises to a level to be deemed flagrant (a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct).

Also, most of us realize that this is not the same as punches thrown in the hallway. I was simply pointing out that teachers' actions toward students are held to a different standard than students' actions toward other students. I believe the same applies in a basketball game.

All that said, from what was explained in the OP I doubt I would have issued a flagrant T. The question I've argued was whether a coach's actions toward an opposing player should be held to a different standard than a player's. I believe there is a different standard.

[wisref2]

Just to throw in my two pennies:

Easy T. I, too, would think about making it flagrant. Kind of doubt I would go that far, but I would certainly consider it. I suppose it depends on the nature of the game up to that point, to some extent.

Great question - should coaches be held to a higher standard than players? Most certainly so, in my opinion - and it has nothing to do with rules. It has to do with his/her level of responsibility as a leader and educator - and yes, also as an adult who is supervising children.

Example, let's say a coach shoves an opposing player. For a player, that's a T (maybe flagrant). For a coach, that would be an automatic flagrant - we can't have adults taunting and shoving children around on the high school basketball court.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by wisref2

Example, let's say a coach shoves an opposing player. For a player, that's a T (maybe flagrant). For a coach, that would be an automatic flagrant - we can't have adults taunting and shoving children around on the high school basketball court.

I agree.

I called a regular T on this once. It's one of only two times where I wish I could go back and call it flagrant.