Travel or not...

[tnsteele95]

May seem silly, but just trying to be sure. Player with ball in hand and without moving his feet, falls to the floor. Is this a travel? I say yes, some other people are telling me no. Which is it?

By the way, I don't have a handbook. This is a rec league.

[Adam]

it's a travel. A player may not fall to the floor while holding the ball. Whether his feet move is not relevant.

[PS2Man]

Travel.

[Splute]

Travel; rule states something along the lines of nothing (body parts) my touch the floor while in possion of the ball except hands and feet (ball may touch while being held).

[Luv4Asian8]

just learned this in last meeting. while in control of ball and on back, a player can sit up without being a violation. his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

oh yeah. original post answer...travel.

[Splute]

Originally Posted by tnsteele95

May seem silly, but just trying to be sure. Player with ball in hand and without moving his feet, falls to the floor. Is this a travel? I say yes, some other people are telling me no. Which is it?

By the way, I don't have a handbook. This is a rec league.

Rule 4-44-5

Art. 5... A player holding the ball:
	a.		May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
	b.		After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.
	[See corresponding Case Rule for Situation 4.44.5]

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

just learned this in last meeting. while in control of ball and on back, a player can sit up without being a violation. his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

Are you serious?!
Please tell me you're joking.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

Care to provide a citation that allows a player to pivot on hish/her bum?

[FrankHtown]

good gosh,,,I don't want to try that jump stop.

[Splute]

lol FrankHTown, I have to clean my screen!!!

[Luv4Asian8]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Are you serious?!
Please tell me you're joking.

actually, not joking. granted I dont think they can move anywhere else or actually pivot, but was just told they may sit up.

while not joking, I still thought it was funny, maybe I just need to grow up a lil, but who really wants to do that!?

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Care to provide a citation that allows a player to pivot on hish/her bum?

Dont have a citation with me in the office, but I think Splute has the correct cite. In addition, I think it relates somehow to the part - while diving for the ball, the involuntary momentum does not constitute a violation. But I don't know how to directly tie them together, since sitting up is a "voluntary" action.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

actually, not joking. granted I dont think they can move anywhere else or actually pivot, but was just told they may sit up.

while not joking, I still thought it was funny, maybe I just need to grow up a lil, but who really wants to do that!?



Dont have a citation with me in the office, but I think Splute has the correct cite. In addition, I think it relates somehow to the part - while diving for the ball, the involuntary momentum does not constitute a violation. But I don't know how to directly tie them together, since sitting up is a "voluntary" action.

Sitting up is definitely legal and contained in case 4.44.5 Sit B.

I'm just asking for a citation that allows a player to pivot on his/her butt.

[Splute]

I agree with jdw3018... yes sitting up from lying on your back is legal as long a you do not turn to avoid a defender... just sit up and throw a pass.

The "pivot " on the bum part is what is funny. If you can only touch the floor with hands or feet while holding the ball, how can you bum be a "pivot"? plus if you do "pivot" to avoid a defender it is traveling....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Sitting up is definitely legal and contained in case 4.44.5 Sit B.

I'm just asking for a citation that allows a player to pivot on his/her butt.

There is no citation, as you know. A player sitting up can make normal movements to keep the ball away from an opponent, as in twist at the waist, move their arms, etc. They cannot swivel per se while sitting there. If they turn in a part-circle on their butts, they're traveling.

It's cute to say something about a player having a pivot-cheek or pivot-butt while they're sitting on the floor with the ball. It's not a good idea though imo for any rules interpreter to use that term unless they're also going to explain what a player can legally do while sitting there with the ball.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Splute

The "pivot " on the bum part is what is funny. If you can only touch the floor with hands or feet while holding the ball, how can you bum be a "pivot"? plus if you do "pivot" to avoid a defender it is traveling....

Only if you move your pivot cheek.