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-   -   Travel or not... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/40145-travel-not.html)

tnsteele95 Thu Dec 06, 2007 01:54pm

Travel or not...
 
May seem silly, but just trying to be sure. Player with ball in hand and without moving his feet, falls to the floor. Is this a travel? I say yes, some other people are telling me no. Which is it?

By the way, I don't have a handbook. This is a rec league.

Adam Thu Dec 06, 2007 01:55pm

it's a travel. A player may not fall to the floor while holding the ball. Whether his feet move is not relevant.

PS2Man Thu Dec 06, 2007 01:56pm

Travel.

Splute Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:00pm

Travel; rule states something along the lines of nothing (body parts) my touch the floor while in possion of the ball except hands and feet (ball may touch while being held).

Luv4Asian8 Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:00pm

Pivot Butt
 
just learned this in last meeting. while in control of ball and on back, a player can sit up without being a violation. his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

oh yeah. original post answer...travel. ;)

Splute Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnsteele95
May seem silly, but just trying to be sure. Player with ball in hand and without moving his feet, falls to the floor. Is this a travel? I say yes, some other people are telling me no. Which is it?

By the way, I don't have a handbook. This is a rec league.

Rule 4-44-5
<TABLE cellSpacing=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=nfhsMainFtMd vAlign=top colSpan=6>Art. 5... A player holding the ball:</TD></TR><TR><TD class=nfhsMainFtSmBld style="PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; PADDING-TOP: 3px"> </TD><TD class=nfhsMainFtSmBld vAlign=top align=middle colSpan=2>a.</TD><TD class=nfhsMainFtSm vAlign=top colSpan=3>May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=nfhsMainFtSmBld style="PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; PADDING-TOP: 3px"> </TD><TD class=nfhsMainFtSmBld vAlign=top align=middle colSpan=2>b.</TD><TD class=nfhsMainFtSm vAlign=top colSpan=3>After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.</TD></TR><TR><TD class=nfhsMainFtMd vAlign=top noWrap>


</TD><TD class=nfhsMainFtMd vAlign=center noWrap align=left colSpan=5>[See corresponding Case Rule for Situation 4.44.5]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Adam Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8
just learned this in last meeting. while in control of ball and on back, a player can sit up without being a violation. his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

Are you serious?!
Please tell me you're joking.

jdw3018 Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8
his/her bum has now become their pivot butt.

Care to provide a citation that allows a player to pivot on hish/her bum?

FrankHtown Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:38pm

good gosh,,,I don't want to try that jump stop.

Splute Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:40pm

lol FrankHTown, I have to clean my screen!!!

Luv4Asian8 Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Are you serious?!
Please tell me you're joking.

actually, not joking. granted I dont think they can move anywhere else or actually pivot, but was just told they may sit up.

while not joking, I still thought it was funny, maybe I just need to grow up a lil, but who really wants to do that!? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
Care to provide a citation that allows a player to pivot on hish/her bum?

Dont have a citation with me in the office, but I think Splute has the correct cite. In addition, I think it relates somehow to the part - while diving for the ball, the involuntary momentum does not constitute a violation. But I don't know how to directly tie them together, since sitting up is a "voluntary" action.

jdw3018 Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8
actually, not joking. granted I dont think they can move anywhere else or actually pivot, but was just told they may sit up.

while not joking, I still thought it was funny, maybe I just need to grow up a lil, but who really wants to do that!? ;)



Dont have a citation with me in the office, but I think Splute has the correct cite. In addition, I think it relates somehow to the part - while diving for the ball, the involuntary momentum does not constitute a violation. But I don't know how to directly tie them together, since sitting up is a "voluntary" action.

Sitting up is definitely legal and contained in case 4.44.5 Sit B.

I'm just asking for a citation that allows a player to pivot on his/her butt.

Splute Thu Dec 06, 2007 03:11pm

I agree with jdw3018... yes sitting up from lying on your back is legal as long a you do not turn to avoid a defender... just sit up and throw a pass.

The "pivot " on the bum part is what is funny. If you can only touch the floor with hands or feet while holding the ball, how can you bum be a "pivot"? plus if you do "pivot" to avoid a defender it is traveling.... :)

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 06, 2007 06:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
Sitting up is definitely legal and contained in case 4.44.5 Sit B.

I'm just asking for a citation that allows a player to pivot on his/her butt.

There is no citation, as you know. A player sitting up can make normal movements to keep the ball away from an opponent, as in twist at the waist, move their arms, etc. They <b>cannot</b> swivel <i>per se</i> while sitting there. If they turn in a part-circle on their butts, they're traveling.

It's cute to say something about a player having a pivot-cheek or pivot-butt while they're sitting on the floor with the ball. It's not a good idea though imo for any rules interpreter to use that term unless they're also going to explain what a player can legally do while sitting there with the ball.

Mark Padgett Thu Dec 06, 2007 07:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute
The "pivot " on the bum part is what is funny. If you can only touch the floor with hands or feet while holding the ball, how can you bum be a "pivot"? plus if you do "pivot" to avoid a defender it is traveling.... :)

Only if you move your pivot cheek. :eek:


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