Scorebook/Scoreboard Error at End of Game

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So how does she go the whole 4th quarter or however long it was marking up two more points on the line than are shown up on the board and never have it click with her when she looks up?

To me, the bigger question is, "in a one-point game, how is it that no official went to the table in the final 2 minutes to ask if the book matched the scoreboard?".

Inexcusable.

[imagomer]

Where are my fans?

yeah - my question, too. I know they usually SCREAM at the officials when it takes longer than a nano-second to get the points up on the board.

Believe me, I have wondered exactly what you ask - but there is just no answer. Anyone "can't imagine" how it happened (she is quite experienced and reliable), but it did. Yeah. . . . I'm pretty sure she'll be all over it for the rest of the year.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

To me, the bigger question is, "in a one-point game, how is it that no official went to the table in the final 2 minutes to ask if the book matched the scoreboard?".

Inexcusable.

See post #5.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem here is what was the final score that the referee approved when the officials left the visual confines of the gym? Is it what is recorded in the book, which they can't see or is it what they can see on the board and what everyone in the gym thinks is the score?
In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board.

I'm curious why you would consider what's on the board final and not the running total in the official book.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I'm curious why you would consider what's on the board final and not the running total in the official book.

If one asked the referee in the lockerroom what the final score was and which team won the game, what answer would you get?

At some level that matters!

Of course, there is a case book play about the ref not knowing that the U counted a goal at the horn.

[Nevadaref]

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.


I'd submit that the difference is that in this case ONE of the officials believed that the score was proper.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If one asked the referee in the lockerroom what the final score was and which team won the game, what answer would you get?

At some level that matters!

Of course, there is a case book play about the ref not knowing that the U counted a goal at the horn.

I'm not trying to start a fight on this, but I have to say I'm surprised at your thoughts here. I would think that the rules regarding the running total of the official being final in matters of disagreement would be overwhelmingly compelling in this case. Even if the perception of the participants had to be corrected at a later time or date. Otherwise, why keep an official book?

But I certainly would not want to be the person who had to make the phone calls to straighten out the mess; nor would I want to be the referee who got a call from that person!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.


I'd submit that the difference is that in this case ONE of the officials believed that the score was proper.

But in this case the book properly reflected the final score, based on the umpire counting the basket. So the result recorded in the book stands since the window of opportunity for correcting this error (this is a correctable error, is it not?) has closed with the officials leaving the floor.

The subject of the case really is that this error cannot be corrected once the officials have left the visual confines. It actually confirms that the final score, as recorded in the official scorebook, stands.

[Nevadaref]

My response was not intended to carry one shred of animosity.

If it came across that way, I apologize. It was meant to signify the shock that the referee would express in learning that the opposing team was victorious. It would certainly make a mockery of the final bit of game action.

I truly don't know the official ruling on this, so there is no way that I could even get into a "fight" about this issue and certainly not with you. You've always been cool. I just would take all measures possible to never serve as the test case which sets the precedent!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The subject of the case really is that this error cannot be corrected once the officials have left the visual confines. It actually confirms that the final score, as recorded in the official scorebook, stands.

It may be semantics, but I think that it actually confirms that the umpires call and erroneous counting of the goal must stand. This is a bit different than something that was unbeknownst to everyone involved.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

My response was not intended to carry one shred of animosity.

If it came across that way, I apologize.

It did not. I just didn't want to seem like I was starting one. Especially since I agree with your basic sentiment as regards the shock of everybody involved.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It was meant to signify the shock that the referee would express in learning that the opposing team was victorious. It would certainly make a mockery of the final bit of game action.

I truly don't know the official ruling on this, so there is no way that I could even get into a "fight" about this issue and certainly not with you. You've always been cool. I just would take all measures possible to never serve as the test case which sets the precedent!

Amen! In fact, I'm going to be adding your advice about checking with the book near the end of the game to my game starting today. That kind of notoriety I don't need!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board. Perhaps the NFHS will give us an official ruling someday.

The NFHS issued an official ruling before you were born, and that official ruling has never changed. The official ruling (amazingly enough) is in the official rules.

Rule 2-11-4..."The scorer shall record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and keep a running summary of the points scored."

Rule 2-11-11...."If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall accept the record of the OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK, unless he/she has knowledge which permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK."

OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK!!!

If the scoreboard and the scorebook don't match at any time during the game, are you really advocating that we should accept the scoreboard?

Rule 5-3..."The winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of points when the game ends as in 2-2-4."

Do you deliberately bring up nonsense like this to confuse newer officials?

[Dan_ref]

So what I think you're saying is in this case we go by what is in the official scorebook ...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So what I think you're saying is in this case we go by what is in the official scorebook ...

Thank you.

[mkiogima]

I'm not sure but I think there might be something in the rules about an "Official Scorebook".