Scorebook/Scoreboard Error at End of Game

[imagomer]

Maybe this will be interesting. I know the officials in my case handled this correctly, but it brought to my mind a related question.

I lost by 1 point last night, in my own gym (so I've no one to blame by my own group), with a decently experienced scorekeeper on my book. In a close 4th quarter, we were down a few and pressing, and my #11 scored, stole, and scored again within maybe 5 seconds. My scorekeeper scored the 4 pts correctly in the book - running score and player stats, but the scoreboard only posted the first basket.

AFTER time had expired and officials had "left the confines," she was talleying final scores and totals, and she discovered the error. (I know, I know, she SHOULD have been double and triple checking all along, but she didn't) The visitor's book agreed with hers. When the officials returned for the boys' game, she brought her error to their attention, and, of course, they stated there was nothing they could do by that time. (She had even asked that the game be "awarded" to us, after time had expired, based on the scorebook)

My Question: What if she had discovered the error, and the V book had agreed, AS SOON AS time expired (meaning we and the Visitors had played and coached and strategerized under the assumption of a certain score)? What about possibly other discovery times?

I know many here are very experienced and you would not have been even tempted to erroneously grant me the victory, or grant a do-over, but I posted this to show the newer officials just one more sitch they may encounter.

Hope this is interesting - I find these discussions very valuable in improving my coaching and my working relationships with officials.

[FrankHtown]

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

I read the OP as the scoreboard was incorrect, and the official book was correct...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I read the OP as the scoreboard was incorrect, and the official book was correct...

It also depends which part of the scorebook was correct and where the points were recorded. See my above post about the running score versus the individual player talleys.

I'm sure that you know that.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It also depends which part of the scorebook was correct and where the points were recorded. See my above post about the running score versus the individual player talleys.

I'm sure that you know that.

Yeah, great point, and also a great point in your post about "what is the official actually approving?" It would be great to get a clarification or case play added regarding this type of situation.

We had a scoring error in our game last night that wasn't caught in time. My partner called a PC foul on a layup in the third quarter, and apparently the scorers counted the basket. The other team ended up losing by 1. After the game (and after we'd left the confines and returned) the coach asked us about it. He knew the mistake had been made, said he tried to make the point with the scorer, but never asked one of us about it. Strange situation, and I was left wondering if I should have been aware enough at the time to catch it. It was also the one call all night I was frustrated with my partner on because for the second night in a row my partner came to get a call in my area - and IMO was wrong again.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yeah, great point, and also a great point in your post about "what is the official actually approving?" It would be great to get a clarification or case play added regarding this type of situation.

We had a scoring error in our game last night that wasn't caught in time. My partner called a PC foul on a layup in the third quarter, and apparently the scorers counted the basket. The other team ended up losing by 1. After the game (and after we'd left the confines and returned) the coach asked us about it. He knew the mistake had been made, said he tried to make the point with the scorer, but never asked one of us about it. Strange situation, and I was left wondering if I should have been aware enough at the time to catch it. It was also the one call all night I was frustrated with my partner on because for the second night in a row my partner came to get a call in my area - and IMO was wrong again.

That's an excellent learning example. I track the score and the team fouls the entire game. After every basket goes in I find a time in the next couple of seconds to check that the points went up on the board properly. If we get to the next dead ball and they haven't I stop the game and get it fixed.

In your case there was a foul, the game was now stopped, and you have time to check the board, you should be glancing at it for the clock info anyway at every whistle. This really is something that I would expect a varsity official to catch, but as you said, you may have been distracted due to your partner calling out of his area. That is something that I'm sure all of us can take a lesson from and strive to improve upon. How does it affect us when our partner does such and such on the floor. The best officials will keep a poker face and continue to do their duties. It just takes extra mental focus. Thanks for sharing that situation. I'm going to think about it when I work again this weekend.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

A score book error can be corrected any time until the officials leave the visual confines of the court.

If someone has their case book handy, there is just such a case. The score was tied, and before the jump to start the overtime, the scorer realized that team A had two more points. As long as the ball hadn't become live to start the overtime, the game ends with team A winning, and no overtime is played.

Of course, when that happens, the officials SPRINT off the court.

That's not the one in the case book. That's from last year's interps on the website.

2-2-4 ...the jurisdiction of the officials' is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Yes, the score can be corrected up until we have walked out of the gym door. Scores can even be corrected in OT but the OT will played out since we started.

[jdw3018]

Well, the scorebook is the official record of the game. If the official scorebook has you as the winner, then you have won the game regardless of what was on the scoreboard.

At least, that's the way I understand the rule.

[Nevadaref]

We discussed this a couple of months ago on this forum, but if I recall the situation was that the score of the running total in the official book, which is the official score not what's on the board, was tied.

The problem here is what was the final score that the referee approved when the officials left the visual confines of the gym? Is it what is recorded in the book, which they can't see or is it what they can see on the board and what everyone in the gym thinks is the score?
In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board. Perhaps the NFHS will give us an official ruling someday.
BTW I have a strong suspicion that your scorer could learn something from this too. I have to believe that he/she was not keeping the running total across the top of the book, but only marking down the points under each player and then totalling them up at the end of each quarter. Had a running score been kept this mistake would have been noticed at some point. Also a good reminder that the RUNNING SCORE is the official score!

This is a very good example of why many top officials find a moment in the final few seconds/minutes of the 4th quarter to have a quick word with the scorer and confirm that the score in the book matches what is on the board.
Then only a thumbs up at the final horn or a look and a nod is all that is needed to the scorer before leaving the floor.

Obviously had this been brought to the attention of the referee prior to all of the officials leaving, then it could have been corrected and you would have won the game.

[Adam]

Nevada asks the pertinent question. My understanding from the rule is that the book is what gets approved. You might want to get clarification from your state, coach.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem here is what was the final score that the referee approved when the officials left the visual confines of the gym? Is it what is recorded in the book, which they can't see or is it what they can see on the board and what everyone in the gym thinks is the score?
In such a case, I would have to argue that the approved final score is what was on the board.

I'm curious why you would consider what's on the board final and not the running total in the official book.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I'm curious why you would consider what's on the board final and not the running total in the official book.

If one asked the referee in the lockerroom what the final score was and which team won the game, what answer would you get?

At some level that matters!

Of course, there is a case book play about the ref not knowing that the U counted a goal at the horn.

[Nevadaref]

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.


I'd submit that the difference is that in this case ONE of the officials believed that the score was proper.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2.2.4 SITUATION C: Team B leads by a point with seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1 releases the ball on a try, but the noise level makes it difficult for the covering official (umpire) to hear the horn. The umpire signals a successful goal. The referee definitely hears the horn before A1 releases the ball, but does not realize the umpire counted the goal. The officials leave the visual confines of the playing area and are not aware of the controversy until the scorer comes to the officials' dressing room. RULING: Even though the referee could have canceled the score if the officials had conferred before leaving, once the officials leave the visual confines of the playing area, the final score is official and no change can be made. In situations such as this, it is imperative that officials communicate with each other and that they do not leave until any problem regarding scoring or timing has been resolved.


I'd submit that the difference is that in this case ONE of the officials believed that the score was proper.

But in this case the book properly reflected the final score, based on the umpire counting the basket. So the result recorded in the book stands since the window of opportunity for correcting this error (this is a correctable error, is it not?) has closed with the officials leaving the floor.

The subject of the case really is that this error cannot be corrected once the officials have left the visual confines. It actually confirms that the final score, as recorded in the official scorebook, stands.