When did this happen? - Page 3

BktBallRef · #31 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 12:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I don't disagree with anything that you've said except that I don't think that a player's respect for us as officials should be dependent on their perception of us (they think that we're standoffish, etc.) -- their coaches should teach them to respect officials. But many don't, which is a huge source of our problems.

And BktBallRef, if I get out of line, just let me know

I'll give you some leeway. I know you do the same for me!

PAULK1 · #32 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 12:38am

The simple answer to your original question is WHEN WE LET IT HAPPEN! After reading replies to posts about unsportsman like conduct do you really have to ask this question? Too many of us let these things slide hoping not to rock the boat or punish the kids but all we do in the long run is erode our own authority and respect. I don't seek personal respect from players or coaches but I will treat each with the respect and dignity given to all human beings, but I demand respect for what I represent when I am on the court, a keeper of the game of basketball.

DrakeM · #33 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 10:03am

"Lil Bobby got a gun now, age fifteen
Destined to spend his life inside a cage it seems
Rage inside, pride, been denied respect
He can't take it though he gotta earn it
But he ain't learned that yet."
-Afro Angel- by Will Smith from the Willenium album

I agree with Rut.
I have had 13, 14 , 15 year old kids tell me I have to repect them in a game, and I just laugh.
Earn my respect, I'll give it to you. No problem.
But what have you done in your 13 year old life to earn my respect? Do you have children, a job, struggle to put food on the table for those kids. And you want respect, just because you can shoot a basketball? Puhlease!!!!
Let me see how you react when a tough call goes against you. Let me see how you act when your coach takes you out of the game even thought you think you should still be in!
When I see you can handle those situations with maturity,(which by the way, many adults fail that test,)
I will gladly give you respect!
I know of an eighth grader who got mad at an official
who called a foul against him and proceeded to tell him
"I'm the best player out here!" Niiiiccce.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to me!

112448 · #34 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 10:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
I feel that the kids tried to mirror the attitude of their coach

I think that I will paraphrase this (if you don't mind)

Players mirror the attitude of their coach

and put it on a plaque and sell it!!!

This is an undeniable truth about sports. The worse the coach is, the worse the players and fans will be. Period.

I agree entirely with that comment Brad. But, I will also say that I have had some experience where using the captain, we have been able to calm the coach down. That's why I made my original point about Giving Respect to Get Respect (you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that point).

If the players see that you a)smile at the captains meeting, b)say a friendly word to 2 or 3 of them during pregame warm-ups, then c)you are more likely to garner their respect, which leads to d)being able to really rely on your captains (even if it's not the student-athlete that appears at the circle) to help calm players and coaches down.

That was really the intent of my original post - but in hearing JRut's full explanation of the game situation I felt like he tried to handle things in much the same way I would have and sometimes the tricks just don't work. Some kids are just A-holes plain and simple.

Jake

JRutledge · #35 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 01:58pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 112448

Quote:

I agree entirely with that comment Brad. But, I will also say that I have had some experience where using the captain, we have been able to calm the coach down. That's why I made my original point about Giving Respect to Get Respect (you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that point).

If the players see that you a)smile at the captains meeting, b)say a friendly word to 2 or 3 of them during pregame warm-ups, then c)you are more likely to garner their respect, which leads to d)being able to really rely on your captains (even if it's not the student-athlete that appears at the circle) to help calm players and coaches down.

That was really the intent of my original post - but in hearing JRut's full explanation of the game situation I felt like he tried to handle things in much the same way I would have and sometimes the tricks just don't work. Some kids are just A-holes plain and simple.

Jake

If it adds anything, this kid was a captain. So I was trying to reason with him to allow him to be a leader. But that failed so I went to the next best thing and went to the coach. Not that him being a captain means much, but at least the coach has given him some authority or his teammates have given him some authority to act like a leader. And when the leaders act up, the followers follow.

But it never seems to amaze me how the coach that complains the most about what we do, loses most of the time. At least at the HS and below levels, coaching is sooo much more important at those levels than higher up. Not to say that coaches that lose composer at College and Pros do not need to still coach, but HS students are not mature enough to handle adversity the same way a college kid might. And even the college kid the more he plays (or she) they might find themselves handling adversity better. Hell they have seen a lot by the time they are in college usually.

Just like the official that has been done the same road several times, players that have been done the road several times just do not panic quite the same as someone that is going down that road for the first time.

And Brad is right. And that is what happen that night. But by the time he stopped complaining about everything (the coach I am talking about) it was too late. They were playing a very good TEAM and there is very little room for error in those situations. And the other coach basically keep his mouth shut and just coached. And you could tell that by him doing that, his kids just played. It was not like his kids did not get upset about certain calls by looking at their face, but they always had leaders that made them focus on their opponent and not us. And you could tell by the way they played. But that is why they are one of the best teams in the state at their level.

Peace

Brad · #36 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 05:54pm

[Message Deleted]

Peter,

We do not allow personal attacks on this forum.

If you have something positive to contribute to the forum, by all means, please do so...

Our goal is to help each other get better. We can disagree, but we need to conduct ourselves in a positive manner.

Thanks,
Brad

Peter Devana · #37 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 05:59pm

Sorry Brad,
But I honestly don't believe we can help.

Brad · #38 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 06:01pm

I think if people would start looking at each post honestly and openly rather than being biased based on who posted it, that would help.

Just my $0.02

Peter Devana · #39 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 06:07pm

It would not have mattered who made this post. My comments would have still applied. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. So much for comments.
Pistol

Brad · #40 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 06:09pm

Fair enough.

We simply want to avoid ad hominem attacks on each other.

We're all officials and we know the difference between "That's horrible" and "You're horrible", don't we?

Peter Devana · #41 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 06:17pm

Sayonara

Mark Padgett · #42 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 05, 2002, 07:21pm

I've pretty much stayed out of this but I think this may reflect what others have said about players mirroring the example set by their coach.

As I've stated probably too many times before, I serve on the board of our local rec league. Last night, I got a call from the board president asking me to facilitate at a hearing later this week involving one of our rec league coaches. It seems she was removed from her coaching position by the board (I was at that meeting) based on a request from the school district, who, while not specifically asking for her removal (they really have no authority to do that, since we are independent), but said that if she was allowed to continue to practice and play in a certain gym, the district would no longer lease that gym to us. There was no problem with her team, only with her. We were told by the school district that on more than one occasion, she got into verbal shouting matches with the custodian at that school when he tried to reinforce school district rules regarding floor time, no food or drink in th gym policy, etc. All of this happened in front of her team (5th grade boys). We tried to switch her practices to another school, but were unsuccessful in finding anyone who would switch with her.

Gee - I'm really looking forward to this, especially after reading the scathing correspondence she has sent to us.

Our main point is that this happened in front of the kids.

JRutledge · #43 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 02:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by Brad
Fair enough.

We simply want to avoid ad hominem attacks on each other.

We're all officials and we know the difference between "That's horrible" and "You're horrible", don't we?

He is from Canada, give him a break.

Peter Devana · #44 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 12:11pm

Don't worry Rut I won't be commenting on yor posts again. I will simply read them and let the others do my talking from here on in.
Pistol

JRutledge · #45 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 06, 2002, 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Don't worry Rut I won't be commenting on yor posts again. I will simply read them and let the others do my talking from here on in.
Pistol

Believe me, I would not lose sleep and will not lose sleep either way.

I have much better things to worry about then what you or others think about a stupid post. Heeelloooooooo, THIS IS A D.I.S.C.U.S.S.I.O.N. B.O.A.R.D., MAAANNNNN!!!!!

Cannot say I will do the same in return thought. If you say something that I feel I need to comment on, I will.

For those of us that live in America, we understand that disagreement is going to happen and you happen to disagree with me on this and many issues. But most agreed, and a few disagreed with this particular post. The whole point is to voice those issues and move on. And for someone that took anything I said personal, or tried to read into it because of what you THINK you know of me, than that just shows how petty you are. My partner's did not have a problem with anything I did, and WE did DISCUSS it afterwards. And both of them had children (I do not) and agreed with me that teenagers need to know their place.

If age did not matter, they would allow teenagers younger than 18 years old officiate HS games in my state. I guess that means 17 year olds get no respect. But I guess the State of Illinois and many other States do not respect legal minors? But in America we do have rules. Sorry they do not fit your IDEALS.

You have a great childhood.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Feb 6th, 2002 at 02:22 PM]