Question: helping your partner(s)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

What are the rules/etiquette/limits in helping out a partner? Does it depend on the type of call?

A general guideline: If there's something outside the calling official's focus that affects the call, I go to him / her. If the entire call is right in his/her area, then I leave it alone, unless asked.

So, on the OOB call -- if I saw a tip that happened away from the OOB line, I provide the help. On the hanging on the rim call, the official had it all.

[Karin]

Had a situation in a National Schools Championship,I was with a young inexperienced partner.FIBA had just begin the ruling where a payer who is flopping could be given a T.
Close game-outcome decides who is first or second in section,great match ups.Partner on lead low in area 5 -whistle blows and I had no idea what the call was likely to be-possibly a hand or leg out of cylinder that I didn't have an angle on.He came out with a T on the defender for a flop.
Coach is ballistic,the rookie was rattled.I took him to the middle of court,instructed captains etc to stay away while I talked him through his call.I suggested that while he might be technically correct,there had been no contact and that the interpretation of application that had been given was that a warning for flopping was to be given first.He thought about it said I cant take it back now--can I?I did the talking to coaches and captains-told the coach that we were taking T off his player-relieved coach.Opposition coach started to protest until I said that if it stood I would have to back my partner and call every flop in the game a T.Coach more than happy not to let that happen.

In the post game I went over the situation with my partner and I think some learning came from it-he is still reffing and is now a more experienced official.I still think I put the game first but also helped my partner out of a hole.

[Ignats75]

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

Sure you can, as long as it's the calling official that's doing the reversing. It's no different than reversing an OOB call if you find out that you had it wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

Up until it's reported and in the book, sure you can.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Up until it's reported and in the book, sure you can.

Hmmmmmm......

According to case book play 6.4.1SitD, you can can change an AP mistake up to the time that the ball touches a player in-bounds on a throw-in. Why would changing a technical foul call be different?

[Adam]

Okay, so until the ball becomes live for the first free throw?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hmmmmmm......

According to case book play 6.4.1SitD, you can can change an AP mistake up to the time that the ball touches a player in-bounds on a throw-in. Why would changing a technical foul call be different?

I'd be interested in hearing under what circumstances you'd change a T after it's in the book? Not saying you cant, just wondering the details of what would cause you to do it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I'd be interested in hearing under what circumstances you'd change a T after it's in the book? Not saying you cant, just wondering the details of what would cause you to do it?

If one of my trusted partners informed me that I'd obviously misinterpreted what I had heard, I personally wouldn't have a problem rescinding a "T". It's really no different than any other call. If someone brings information to you that you might have screwed up a call, and you agree with what they're saying, why not change your call?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If one of my trusted partners informed me that I'd obviously misinterpreted what I had heard, I personally wouldn't have a problem rescinding a "T". It's really no different than any other call. If someone brings information to you that you might have screwed up a call, and you agree with what they're saying, why not change your call?

Nnot saying you shouldn't, just inquiring about your own judgment and criteria. Would you do this even after reporting? If it happened that way, would you explain to coaches?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Nnot saying you shouldn't, just inquiring about your own judgment and criteria. Would you do this even after reporting? If it happened that way, would you explain to coaches?

Yes, I would change a call after reporting if I received some good input showing that I was wrong. If there is any doubt remaining in my mind though, I'm not changing the call.If I do change it, I would get both coaches together(with a partner handy as a silent witness), tell them that I changed the call because I was wrong, and then walk away and get the game going without getting into a discussion on it with either coach.

That's just me though.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, I would change a call after reporting if I received some good input showing that I was wrong. If there is any doubt remaining in my mind though, I'm not changing the call.If I do change it, I would get both coaches together(with a partner handy as a silent witness), tell them that I changed the call because I was wrong, and then walk away and get the game going without getting into a discussion on it with either coach.

That's just me though.

Yabut....

Your opinion counts for a lot. Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate you spelling out the details. What I'm working on this year (from the stands) is getting into the heads of experienced, capable refs so I can adjust my own judgment and decisions to that level.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yabut....

Your opinion counts for a lot. Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate you spelling out the details. What I'm working on this year (from the stands) is getting into the heads of experienced, capable refs so I can adjust my own judgment and decisions to that level.

I had a play earlier this year. My partner was administering a FT, then blew teh whistle and indicated a technical foul on the defender. I "assumed" that is was for touching / dislodging the ball.

He reported it, the coach squawked a little, we administered the FTs and went on with the game.

After the game, my partner indicated that the T was for stepping OOB with both feet.

Had he come to me after reporting and before the FTs (and maybe even before the subsequent throw-in), I would have suggested that we reverse the T.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I had a play earlier this year. My partner was administering a FT, then blew teh whistle and indicated a technical foul on the defender. I "assumed" that is was for touching / dislodging the ball.

He reported it, the coach squawked a little, we administered the FTs and went on with the game.

After the game, my partner indicated that the T was for stepping OOB with both feet.

Had he come to me after reporting and before the FTs (and maybe even before the subsequent throw-in), I would have suggested that we reverse the T.

Agreed.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, I would change a call after reporting if I received some good input showing that I was wrong. If there is any doubt remaining in my mind though, I'm not changing the call.If I do change it, I would get both coaches together(with a partner handy as a silent witness), tell them that I changed the call because I was wrong, and then walk away and get the game going without getting into a discussion on it with either coach.

That's just me though.

Not just you, JR. Good solid advice.