Beckoning in Subs

[fullor30]

Going long, C opposite table brings them in. In all other sitches, does closest table side have that honor?

[Adam]

whomever

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

whomever

Agreed, as long as you agree in pre-game. This is not a major deal in my game.

[Nevadaref]

And starting this year the NFHS mechanic is to sound the whistle for all incoming subs.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

And starting this year the NFHS mechanic is to sound the whistle for all incoming subs.

Was taht noted as a change? I hadn't realized or recognized it...but it's been common use everywhere I've officiated before this year, anyway.

[Nevadaref]

Nope, just appeared in the new manual without comment.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope, just appeared in the new manual without comment.

Shocking

[Nevadaref]

Yeah, there was a lot of that this year.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Going long, C opposite table brings them in. In all other sitches, does closest table side have that honor?

I disagree with above who say "whoever." It is Cs job to bring in subs when spread full court.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes

I disagree with above who say "whoever." It is Cs job to bring in subs when spread full court.

The way I look at it is that it is C's responsibility, but I've got no problem if one of the other officials sees it first, blows the whistle and beckons...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snake~eyes

I disagree with above who say "whoever." It is Cs job to bring in subs when spread full court.

What if the table is down at one end due to space requirements in the gym?

My area usually goes with the closest official takes care of the subs, but following a made FT the T brings them in and then passes the responsibility off to the C.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Going long, C opposite table brings them in. In all other sitches, does closest table side have that honor?

For the record Illinois does not use the NF Mechanics book anymore.

The official closest to the table initially brings in the subs and the C makes sure anyone after the first wave is taken care of.

And no you do not have to blow your whistle to bring in a sub. That is optional at best and unnecessary most of the time.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record Illinois does not use the NF Mechanics book anymore.

The official closest to the table initially brings in the subs and the C makes sure anyone after the first wave is taken care of.

And no you do not have to blow your whistle to bring in a sub. That is optional at best and unnecessary most of the time.

The two statements in pink are obviously linked. Rut sometimes fails to note stuff like that when he pontificates.

For any locale or state that DOES use NFHS mechanics, one DOES blow the whistle when bringing in subs. The new NFHS manual says so on pages 40 and 77.
2.4.5 F and 3.4.5 G
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes ...
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s) is completed and play may begin.

Also these two sections cover the mechanics of which official brings in the subs.
For two-man it is "the official near the table, typically the Trail," (2.4.5B) while in 3-man the book says, "Generally, the Trail will acknowledge and beckon substitutes onto the court, except when the Trail is administering a throw-in. In that case, the Center will beckon the substitutes.
... In such case, when in-bounding the ball in the back court, the Center will beckon substitutes (if the table side Trail beckons the substitutes as he/she transitions to new Lead, he/she should hand off the administration to the Center)." (3.4.5b&C)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The two statements in pink are obviously linked. Rut sometimes fails to note stuff like that when he pontificates.

How can I put this clearer?

The IHSA is no longer mailing out the NF Manuals to officials anymore. The reason this is the case is because the IHSA feels that many of the NF Mechanics are out dated and sometimes flat our wrong. And in several sports the IHSA uses very few NF Mechanic procedures. And if you do not believe that, ask any IHSA Basketball official why they have not received a NF Official's Manual this year? It is not because the IHSA forgot. The IHSA does not want to use them anymore. Just like the IHSA choose not to use the NF's On-line class for "certification" which was encouraged by the NF and Mary Struckoff who once worked for the IHSA before she took her post.

The IHSA has taken more steps to be apart of the Officials Education Consortium which is a group of states that are sharing video clips and other education material than using material outside of the NF.

I have direct knowledge of this because I speaking as a member of the IHSA Conference Committee which is headed by Dave Gannaway, Assistant Executive Director of the IHSA and runs the IHSA Official's Department (also sat on the NF Football Committee until this year). On that committee I was asked to run (with my football crew member) the IHSA New Official's Session at the Official's Convention that takes place in July every year. How does that relate to this topic? It relates because basketball in Illinois has their own mechanics and philosophies which many are explained in a PowerPoint Presentation (that I have referenced several times here) on the IHSA website. I have also been selected to be an IHSA Clinician in basketball this past summer and I tend to follow these issues very closely. As an IHSA Clinician, it is not necessary to blow the whistle in Illinois despite what the NF Book says because we do not use it anyway. It is not something that is forbidden to do, but it is not required (or else).

Unless something changes drastically in the next few years, we will not be using the NF Official’s Manuals anytime soon. This is a much bigger issue in my other sports like football and baseball where the NF Mechanics and the IHSA Mechanics are very different. Basketball is more in line with the NF as in similarities, but there are differences and things we are asked to do that do not apply at all with the NF. For example, bouncing the ball to the thrower on the end line as the Lead or New Trail is not allowed in Illinois. This is a big no-no in this state and is taught as something that you cannot do. The NF allows the option and the IHSA says you do it this way or else. It is required to teach the IHSA PowerPoint Mechanics at IHSA Clinics and not material directly from the NF literature.

And if I do recall, the OPer is from Illinois. If he wants to stay in the good graces of the higher ups, he likely will have to do what is accepted from the IHSA.

Anything else you think you know better than I do about this topic?

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by iRutl

And if I do recall, the OPer is from Illinois.

Yep, he said from the Chicago area, but do you know where jdw hails from? How about snakeeyes or snaqwells? This forum is not just for people from IL.

Originally Posted by iRut

Anything else you think you know better than I do about this topic?

Yeah, how about these points: I know how it works in my state, I know what it says in the NFHS manual, I know that jdw is from South Carolina, Snaqwells is in CO, and that I don't give a %)^@# what you do in Illinois.

WE ARE ALL AWARE that IL dropped the NFHS mechanics manual because you've written that numerous times. We don't care and are sick and tired of you saying that over and over. If you want to talk about what happens in one certain state do that in a single thread, and leave the rest of the board to those of us in the other 49 states plus DC.

Now what the (&*^$@ can't you understand about this sentence? I VERY CLEARLY put it right there in my prior post for all to see.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

For any locale or state that DOES use NFHS mechanics, one DOES blow the whistle when bringing in subs.

Perhaps you just can't read.