Case play 4.19.8 Situation C

[David]

In case 4.19.8 Situation C, the ball is in flight when a block/charge occurs. (I know that this will never actually happen in one of our games since we are always aware of double whistles and make sure not to sell conflicting calls). In this situation (that must have occurred in someone else's game) since it is a double foul, the foul by A1 isn't a player control foul and the basket counts if it goes in.

I've been trying to decide what happens if the block/charge occurs prior to the shot being released. 4-11-3 says that continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls. Do we consider A1 to be a teammate in this case and consider the ball dead and wave off the basket if it goes in or is this situation the same as if the ball was released prior to the contact?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by David

I've been trying to decide what happens if the block/charge occurs prior to the shot being released. 4-11-3 says that continuous motion does not apply if a teammate fouls. Do we consider A1 to be a teammate in this case and consider the ball dead and wave off the basket if it goes in or is this situation the same as if the ball was released prior to the contact?

Follow rules 6-7-7 & 4-36-2(a).

[David]

I’m sorry if I didn't put enough detail into my original post.

I don't have any question about rule 4-36-2(a). I agree that POI will be used to put the ball in play after the double foul.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of rule 6-7-7 and, in this case, exception c which talks about continuous motion.

My question was specific to rule 4-11-3. I'm trying to decide if the term "teammate" includes the shooter in this situation.

[jer166]

Originally Posted by David

I’m sorry if I didn't put enough detail into my original post.

I don't have any question about rule 4-36-2(a). I agree that POI will be used to put the ball in play after the double foul.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of rule 6-7-7 and, in this case, exception c which talks about continuous motion.

My question was specific to rule 4-11-3. I'm trying to decide if the term "teammate" includes the shooter in this situation.

4-36-2c covers it. The intent of Point of interruption is to penalize the foul but not give an advantage/disadvantage to either team. So if the POI is A1's successful goal then B has the ball out on the endline.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by David

I’m sorry if I didn't put enough detail into my original post.

I don't have any question about rule 4-36-2(a). I agree that POI will be used to put the ball in play after the double foul.

I think I have a pretty good understanding of rule 6-7-7 and, in this case, exception c which talks about continuous motion.

My question was specific to rule 4-11-3. I'm trying to decide if the term "teammate" includes the shooter in this situation.

The ball is dead when the shooter commits a foul. The throwin will always be a POI throwin....A's ball.

[Ed Maeder]

Better check again Camron. The ball is not dead on a double personal foul. A did not have team control as the shot was released before the contact. Ruling says count the basket and POI would be B's ball with run of end line.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Better check again Camron. The ball is not dead on a double personal foul. A did not have team control as the shot was released before the contact. Ruling says count the basket and POI would be B's ball with run of end line.

That's true in the case play mentioned. It might or might not be true when the double foul occurs prior to the shot being released. There was some discussion on this a month or so ago -- and the continuous motion provisions seem, to me at least, to be conflicting on this.

[Ed Maeder]

Agreed

[jer166]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's true in the case play mentioned. It might or might not be true when the double foul occurs prior to the shot being released. There was some discussion on this a month or so ago -- and the continuous motion provisions seem, to me at least, to be conflicting on this.

If the act is ruled continuous motion the shot has to count. That is what continuous motion is all about. If it is not continuous motion then it's no shot, ball OOB to the offense for a spot throw-in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jer166

If the act is ruled continuous motion the shot has to count. That is what continuous motion is all about. If it is not continuous motion then it's no shot, ball OOB to the offense for a spot throw-in.

Oh? Where may I find that definitively cited in the rule book?

The exception in R6-7-7EXCEPTION(c) says a foul by an "opponent". That exception doesn't cover a double foul.

[Nevadaref]

Continuous motion does not apply to a double foul. If the try has not been released prior to the time when the double foul occurs, the ball becomes dead while still in control of Team A. Thus the POI will be a throw-in for Team A.

[jer166]

OK, I can live with that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Better check again Camron. The ball is not dead on a double personal foul. A did not have team control as the shot was released before the contact. Ruling says count the basket and POI would be B's ball with run of end line.

You are correct. I mis-read the play. I thought is said the foul occurred before the ball wa in flight.