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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 07:21am
KSRef07
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Jump Stop Travel

I have been reading the rules under section 4.44 and have a question. If player A1 dribble drives to the basket, jump stops holding the ball (lands on both feet simultaneously while holding the ball), can she then pivot?

In a game yesterday a girl did this (I was in the stands) and after her jump stop, she either pivoted and kicked the ball out to the wing or took and extra wide step around B5 with her left foot still planted and made a shot. Both times the ref called travaling. The coach went nuts. Looked like traveling to me.

Rule 4.44.2.a3 seems to indicate that the call was correct.

The main article 4.44.2 reads "A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:" (How can a player catch the ball while dribbling?)

4.44.2.a3: "On one foot (I assume she would be on one foot as she started her jump stop), the player may jump off that foot and land simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case."

Your thoughts are appreciated.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 07:35am
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KS - the term "jump stop" is often thrown around with several different meanings.

If the girl picked up her dribble, hopped on one foot, then came down on both feet - any movement of either foot here would be a travel.

If she hopped on one foot while still dribbling, then picked up her dribble and then came down on both feet, she can pick one foot to be her pivot foot.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 08:11am
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From the wording of the play, it seems she performed the jump stop that does not allow her to pivot. Sounds like a good call by the ref.
Once that jump stop is completed, the player may lift either or both feet, but may not put them back on the floor while holding the ball without traveling.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 08:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
I have been reading the rules under section 4.44 and have a question. If player A1 dribble drives to the basket, jump stops holding the ball (lands on both feet simultaneously while holding the ball), can she then pivot?

In a game yesterday a girl did this (I was in the stands) and after her jump stop, she either pivoted and kicked the ball out to the wing or took and extra wide step around B5 with her left foot still planted and made a shot. Both times the ref called travaling. The coach went nuts. Looked like traveling to me.

Rule 4.44.2.a3 seems to indicate that the call was correct.

The main article 4.44.2 reads "A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:" (How can a player catch the ball while dribbling?)

4.44.2.a3: "On one foot (I assume she would be on one foot as she started her jump stop), the player may jump off that foot and land simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case."

Your thoughts are appreciated.
If you consider the ball to becoming up to her hands on the first step, at which point she grasps the ball with both hands and makes the two foot landing jump stop, then she is able to pivot or step to make a try for goal.

If she had already secured the ball on the first step, then the double foot jump stop would be her final step: no pivot allowed, but she can make a try for goal or pass, as long as the ball is released before the foot comes back down.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 12:24pm
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Depends on when the dribble ended. Probably, it will be considered to have ended when she touched the ball with both hands, on the way toward shooting. If she's got one foot on the ground as that happens or if she lands on one foot after that and then jumps onto two feet, it's legal, but she's got no more movement available legally. If she takes her last one foot step, then "gathers" the ball (dribble ends here) while in the air and then lands on two feet, etiher foot could be a pivot. Also some refs blur that moment of two hands on the ball pretty far and will let this go. Others are very tight in observing the details and will call more.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 12:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
I have been reading the rules under section 4.44 and have a question. If player A1 dribble drives to the basket, jump stops holding the ball (lands on both feet simultaneously while holding the ball), can she then pivot?

In a game yesterday a girl did this (I was in the stands) and after her jump stop, she either pivoted and kicked the ball out to the wing or took and extra wide step around B5 with her left foot still planted and made a shot. Both times the ref called travaling. The coach went nuts. Looked like traveling to me.

Rule 4.44.2.a3 seems to indicate that the call was correct.

The main article 4.44.2 reads "A player who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows:" (How can a player catch the ball while dribbling?)

4.44.2.a3: "On one foot (I assume she would be on one foot as she started her jump stop), the player may jump off that foot and land simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case."

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Based on the wording you gave, this was a jump stop. After a jump stop is completed, you cannot do anything with your either foot but jump up to pass or shoot. But you cannot pick up your foot and put it back down.

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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 01:30pm
KSRef07
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Good feedback. So, if I read this right...

A1 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as her right foot is on the floor she grabs the ball and leaps for a jump stop. After she lands - no pivot allowed? Correct?

A2 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as the ball is coming up she leaps off her right foot and she grabs the ball with both hands in the air and lands in a jump stop. After she lands - pivot allowed? Correct?

If correct, those are some mighty fine hairs to split.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 01:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Dexter
KS - the term "jump stop" is often thrown around with several different meanings.

If the girl picked up her dribble, hopped on one foot, then came down on both feet - any movement of either foot here would be a travel.

If she hopped on one foot while still dribbling, then picked up her dribble and then came down on both feet, she can pick one foot to be her pivot foot.
Along that same line, If watch and see the take off on one foot, then a thump, thump, its a travel.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 01:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
A1 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as her right foot is on the floor she grabs the ball and leaps for a jump stop. After she lands - no pivot allowed? Correct?
Correct.
Quote:
A2 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as the ball is coming up she leaps off her right foot and she grabs the ball with both hands in the air and lands in a jump stop. After she lands - pivot allowed? Correct?
Correct.

Quote:
If correct, those are some mighty fine hairs to split.
Correct.

That's one of the things that makes traveling such a hard call.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
Good feedback. So, if I read this right...

A1 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as her right foot is on the floor she grabs the ball and leaps for a jump stop. After she lands - no pivot allowed? Correct?
Correct as long as the right foot is the foot she jumped off of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
A2 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as the ball is coming up she leaps off her right foot and she grabs the ball with both hands in the air and lands in a jump stop. After she lands - pivot allowed? Correct?

If correct, those are some mighty fine hairs to split.
This is correct but this would not be considered a jump stop (in my opinion) because the dribbler did not have ball when they leaped. Actually the dribble stopped while the player was in the air from my understanding. The first foot that comes back to the floor, would be the pivot foot.

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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 01:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
The first foot that comes back to the floor, would be the pivot foot.
But if they land at the same time, either could be the pivot, correct?
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 02:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSRef07
Good feedback. So, if I read this right...

A1 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as her right foot is on the floor she grabs the ball and leaps for a jump stop. After she lands - no pivot allowed? Correct?

A2 is driving to the basket. She dribbles one last time and as the ball is coming up she leaps off her right foot and she grabs the ball with both hands in the air and lands in a jump stop. After she lands - pivot allowed? Correct?

If correct, those are some mighty fine hairs to split.
We consider the same thing when the player is going in for a layup. He/she is allowed 1.5 steps. Meaning the ball is on the way up on the first step (half step), grasp and one more step, then layup. Many think that players get two steps on layups, especially fans. It seems like that have taken two steps when in fact on the first step the ball was still on its way up from the floor. In this case (your op) the next step is actully the double foot landing.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 02:59pm
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Originally Posted by PYRef
But if they land at the same time, either could be the pivot, correct?
Yes, if it is not considered a jump stop.

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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 03:14pm
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Part of the confusion on the term "jump stop" is because the rule lists "both" kinds together. IMO, the part describing the "jump stop" where the player catches the ball in the air and lands on one foot is redundant and not necessary.

The part describing the player catching a ball, then jumping off one foot and landing on both simultaneously, is necessary because the move would be illegal were it not for this particular exception.
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Old Mon Oct 15, 2007, 04:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute
We consider the same thing when the player is going in for a layup. He/she is allowed 1.5 steps.
IMO, you'd be far better off by removing that "1.5 steps" (or 2 steps, etc.) from your officiating vocabulary. Instead, concentrate on "allowed movement of the pivot foot" and whether the player's movements are in excess of that.
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