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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 08:54pm
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seems to me, pick up your dribble and land BOOM, BOOM (left foot, right foot)

Im my eyes, those are you two steps, and as soon as you pick up either foot (you are lifting your pivot foot) or taking a third step (or both.)

Why is this allowed?
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:12pm
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Simple. It's specifically allowed for in the rules. Take it up with the rules committee.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:16pm
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There is a specific rule related to the JUMP STOP?
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:18pm
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yup.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:36pm
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I see it now. Added it in 2004, but it still makes no sense to me.

How can you have no pivot foot?

Even if you suppose the rule as it is written: when you land on both feet simultaneously, then either can be the pivot foot.

OK. So as you go to jump again, the left one comes up first (so this is NOW the right is your pivot foot) As soon as you lift the right one...you have just traveled.

It is rule changes like this that errode the fundamentals imo.

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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:49pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrkleen
How can you have no pivot foot?
Because you only have a pivot foot in very specific circumstances that are very spefically laid out in the rules. If you have both feet on the ground and receive a pass, you have no pivot foot. That's not that hard to understand. You don't have a pivot foot until you pick up one of your feet.

Similarly, the rules stipulate that if you receive a pass with one foot on the floor and jump off the foot, you may land on both feet simultaneously. But then you are not allowed a pivot foot. Make sense?

Quote:
Even if you suppose the rule as it is written: when you land on both feet simultaneously, then either can be the pivot foot.
No, b/c the rule explicitly states that neither foot is allowed to be the pivot. Why do you want to make it harder than it has to be?

Quote:
OK. So as you go to jump again, the left one comes up first (so this is NOW the right is your pivot foot) As soon as you lift the right one...you have just traveled.
No you haven't. The rules allow you to jump, you just can't pivot.

Quote:
It is rule changes like this that errode the fundamentals imo.
You should at least understand the rule before you decide its effect on the game.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 09:59pm
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Chuck

This rule was amended in 2004, so dont act like it is perfectly clear and anyone that is confused by it is stupid.

For many years, this kind of move would have resulted in a TRAVELING VIOLATION. The rules commitees have the right to change rules...fair enough.

Still doesnt mean that some old school fans of the game cant see it as a travel.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrkleen
Chuck

This rule was amended in 2004, so dont act like it is perfectly clear and anyone that is confused by it is stupid.
I have rulebooks back to 2000 handy (and older ones somewhere else) and the rule is exactly the same in that 2000 book.

I'm not saying you're stupid. I'm saying you clearly don't know the rule. And you didn't. If Mark DeNucci makes a trip to his attic this weekend, maybe he can tell us exactly when the jump stop provision was added in the traveling definition.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrkleen
I see it now. Added it in 2004, but it still makes no sense to me.

How can you have no pivot foot?

Even if you suppose the rule as it is written: when you land on both feet simultaneously, then either can be the pivot foot.

OK. So as you go to jump again, the left one comes up first (so this is NOW the right is your pivot foot) As soon as you lift the right one...you have just traveled.

It is rule changes like this that errode the fundamentals imo.

You went on another thread and claimed you have been playing, coaching and officiating for 30 years and you do not know why this rule is the way it is?

It is legal and it was legal when I was playing over 20 years ago. We were taught to do the move when I played in HS.

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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:54pm
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The rule has not changed. Neither has the interpretation. It's been the same for years. But you're definitley confused by it and I can understand that.

There are two different jump stops.

1- Player catches the ball with neither foot on the floor.
a- If he lands on both feet simultaneously, either foot can be the pivot.
b- If he lands on one foot followed by the other, the first foot to land is the pivot.

2- Player catches the ball with one foot on the floor.
a- He must land on both feet simultaneously. If he lands one, then the other, he's traveled.
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Old Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:02pm
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for clarification, you get a step---and a half-----when the left foot hits, that becomes the pivot foot...when the right foot hits, that is your ONE step...you then get a half of a step by lifting the pivot foot. And then shooting, or passing, before the pivot foot hits the floor, which would make two steps and a travel. You have never been able to have two steps...only a step and a half....
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skarecrow
for clarification, you get a step---and a half-----when the left foot hits, that becomes the pivot foot...when the right foot hits, that is your ONE step...you then get a half of a step by lifting the pivot foot. And then shooting, or passing, before the pivot foot hits the floor, which would make two steps and a travel. You have never been able to have two steps...only a step and a half....
Not quibbling with your useful explanation, but for clarity, the player actualy gets 1.9999... steps. As long as the player shoots or passes before that second foot comes down, it's OK. Many a travel gets called because the player looks awkward, and, in error, guilty.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:34am
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Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Skarecrow
for clarification, you get a step---and a half-----when the left foot hits, that becomes the pivot foot...when the right foot hits, that is your ONE step...you then get a half of a step by lifting the pivot foot. And then shooting, or passing, before the pivot foot hits the floor, which would make two steps and a travel. You have never been able to have two steps...only a step and a half....
Not quibbling with your useful explanation, but for clarity, the player actualy gets 1.9999... steps. As long as the player shoots or passes before that second foot comes down, it's OK. Many a travel gets called because the player looks awkward, and, in error, guilty.
And I wish I had a nickel for every time some uninformed fan, coach or player has whined about this.....I probably hear it a dozen times a game or more. It isn't a travel until the pivot foot touches the floor again, assuming of course the player hasn't already passed the ball or started a dribble.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:58am
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As long as he doesn't start his dribble after lifting the pivot foot....
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrkleen
Chuck

This rule was amended in 2004, so dont act like it is perfectly clear and anyone that is confused by it is stupid.

For many years, this kind of move would have resulted in a TRAVELING VIOLATION. The rules commitees have the right to change rules...fair enough.

Still doesnt mean that some old school fans of the game cant see it as a travel.
And, for many years, any dribble was a violation. MTD probably has a letter from a Mr. Naismith complaining about a rules change that affected the fundamentals of basket ball.

It's unclear to me in reading your posts whether you are (1) asking whether the rule has changed, (2) complaining that officials aren't calling travelling correctly, or (3) suggesting that the rule be removed (or changed back to being a travel).

I *think* it's #3 -- and, if so, we can have that discussion, but I don't think it will go very far. None of us is on the FED rules committee, and (most of) the players, coaches, fans seem to like the rule, so I'd guess it will stay.

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