Palming, POE

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

The move where the dribbler grabs the ball (palms it) at the top of his dribble, holds it and hesitates before continuing the dribble.

This is a tricky one. This can not be a global problem because most HS players can't palm the ball facing down, or at least not the ones that are handling the ball. Also, hestation dribbling is not illegal. We where told that if no advantage has been gained, don't interrupt the game. When looking for palming, look for the obvisous. When it occurs, there will be no doubt, it is very clear.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

What about when a dribbler does a 360 degree spin move and continues his/her dribble? Would this be something we should call as palming?

If the hand stays in contact with the ball the entire time as the player spins 360 degrees, I can't see how the ball would NOT come to rest in the hand.

It is, as Jurassic said, purely judgment; but in that particular move, I don't know how the player could avoid palming the ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Also, hestition dribbling is not illegal.

That's not what the POE in the 2007-08 rule book says.

POE 4B-PALMING: "A definite advantage to the offensive player is gained on the hesitation 'move' to beat a defender(towards the basket or just to go by them). In many of these instances, the ball is 'coming to rest' in the dribbler's hand. A violation MUST be called by the official, as there is no way to defend against this move."

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's not what the POE in the 2007-08 rule book says.

POE 4B-PALMING: "A definite advantage to the offensive player is gained on the hesitation 'move' to beat a defender(towards the basket or just to go by them). In many of these instances, the ball is 'coming to rest' in the dribbler's hand. A violation MUST be called by the official, as there is no way to defend against this move."

It might not be a bad idea to actually read a POE before commenting on it.

That's a pretty general and patronizing statement. To the authors, I offer. "Duh !!!"

[lmeadski]

Of course I didn't read the minds of the person who made this a POE. However, I cannot see of think of many realistic circumstances when the ball can be palmed when the palm is facing downward. Big hands, small ball (sounds a bit personal), sure, it may be possible. But, how many Connie Hawkins are there out there?! And, he couldn't dribble to save his life (or his career). I think we see many more instances where the "old" palming is allowed (hand under the ball, especially on hesitations and crossovers).

[mick]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

Of course I didn't read the minds of the person who made this a POE. However, I cannot see of think of many realistic circumstances when the ball can be palmed when the palm is facing downward. Big hands, small ball (sounds a bit personal), sure, it may be possible. But, how many Connie Hawkins are there out there?! And, he couldn't dribble to save his life (or his career). I think we see many more instances where the "old" palming is allowed (hand under the ball, especially on hesitations and crossovers).

Well, there is that very good NCAA clip of a point guard dribbling right-handed down the right side of the key to the free throw line and stops as he rolls his hand over the top of the ball [with the ball actually reversing direction at it's apex] and dribbles backward. Doesn't take a large hand to do that, only a quick hand.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by mick

Well, there is that very good NCAA clip of a point guard dribbling right-handed down the right side of the key to the free throw line and stops as he rolls his hand over the top of the ball [with the ball actually reversing direction at it's apex] and dribbles backward. Doesn't take a large hand to do that, only a quick hand.

Where is the disadvangate in that? If we called every single little insignificant thing to the game that is in the book, we really wouldn't have much of a game. Palm down palming is questionable. I would like to see some examples. I would prefer time be spent on more destructive items to the game. This is ticky-tack. Makes you wonder about the committee meeting all together. Who's on this board? What did they have for lunch? etc....

[mick]

Originally Posted by Old School

Where is the disadvangate in that? If we called every single little insignificant thing to the game that is in the book, we really wouldn't have much of a game. Palm down palming is questionable. I would like to see some examples. I would prefer time be spent on more destructive items to the game. This is ticky-tack. Makes you wonder about the committee meeting all together. Who's on this board? What did they have for lunch? etc....

Those are rhetorical questions I presume.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

That's not what the POE in the 2007-08 rule book says.

POE 4B-PALMING: "A definite advantage to the offensive player is gained on the hesitation 'move' to beat a defender(towards the basket or just to go by them). In many of these instances, the ball is 'coming to rest' in the dribbler's hand. A violation MUST be called by the official, as there is no way to defend against this move."

I think it should be pointed out that the hesitation dribble is not illegal, but the ball coming to rest (palm up or down) along with a hesitation move is illegal, if I am understanding this correctly. If this is not right, please let me know.

I like the NCAA interp where they recommend that if the dribbler is not gaining an advangate, palming does not need to be called.

This new POE could cause some problems. Among the least, consistentcy problems with the officials and it gives losing coaches something else to complain about.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

if the dribbler is not gaining an advangate,

Is that like gaining a Watergate?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I like the NCAA interp where they recommend that if the dribbler is not gaining an advangate, palming does not need to be called.

Where my I find that particular NCAA interpretation?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Where my I find that particular NCAA interpretation?

You would have to go to a DI camp.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

You would have to go to a DI camp.

Um, no. If the NCAA rulesmakers issue something, they issue it to everybody. For instance, in last year's NCAA rule book, they issued a POE on Palming also. In that POE, it doesn't mention anything even remotely resembling what you stated.

What D1 camp was this said at?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, no. If the NCAA rulesmakers issue something, they issue it to everybody. For instance, in last year's NCAA rule book, they issued a POE on Palming also. In that POE, it doesn't mention anything even remotely resembling what you stated.

What D1 camp was this said at?

All of the one's that I attended.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

All of the one's that I attended.

That's exactly what I thought.