Palming, POE

[Splute]

After reading the POE regarding "palming", I am having a hard time imagining how the hand can be "facing downward" and be called palming. I understand their point regarding the ball coming to rest at anypoint in the dribble. But I am having a hard time picturing how that can happen with the palm facing downward. I realize you have the potential when the dribbler changes directions and pulls the ball across or perhaps a behind the back move that may cause the ball to rest in the hand extendedly. In these cases the palm is usually on the side of the ball. Can someone state a situation where the palm is facing downward and you would call palming? I do not consider a high dribble to be such a case. Perhaps I am just picking on the wording? thanks

[mick]

Originally Posted by Splute

After reading the POE regarding "palming", I am having a hard time imagining how the hand can be "facing downward" and be called palming. I understand their point regarding the ball coming to rest at anypoint in the dribble. But I am having a hard time picturing how that can happen with the palm facing downward. I realize you have the potential when the dribbler changes directions and pulls the ball across or perhaps a behind the back move that may cause the ball to rest in the hand extendedly. In these cases the palm is usually on the side of the ball. Can someone state a situation where the palm is facing downward and you would call palming? I do not consider a high dribble to be such a case. Perhaps I am just picking on the wording? thanks

Splute,
Picture yourself dribbling a child's small basketball.
Now, picture yourself with very large hands and a regulation basketball.
Does that help?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Splute

After reading the POE regarding "palming", I am having a hard time imagining how the hand can be "facing downward" and be called palming.

The move where the dribbler grabs the ball (palms it) at the top of his dribble, holds it and hesitates before continuing the dribble.

[Splute]

aaahhhh, that never crossed my mind. thanks guys!

[M&M Guy]

Splute, what word did you use in the title of this thread? Have you ever seen a good player be able to hold the ball with one hand, even when the hand is on top of the ball, facing downward? That, to me, is the essence of palming. There are many players using that skill to re-direct a dribble, where some of us need to put our hand under the ball to accomplish the same thing. It's harder to watch for, especially if you are used to just watching where the hands is on the ball, rather than what is being done with the ball.

I'm guessing this is more of an issue in the higher levels, and not with grade school or most JV ball.

[M&M Guy]

Or, what mick said.

[Splute]

I appreciate the detail explanation M&M. My simple mind had never considered someone being able to do that while dribbling. I see it during dunks, but never have noticed in dribbles. I think you nailed it when you state we have watched for placement of hands on the ball. I knew I had to be missing something for them to write a POE.

[Jimgolf]

Do they define "come to rest" anywhere? Technically, I suspect the ball always comes to rest on any dribble, but I didn't take physics, so I could be wrong here.

Do we count seconds, or is this "I know it when I see it"?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Do they define "come to rest" anywhere? Technically, I suspect the ball always comes to rest on any dribble, but I didn't take physics, so I could be wrong here.

Do we count seconds, or is this "I know it when I see it"?

You are not wrong for the exact reason that you're thinking.

Yes, you'll know it when you see it. Just like a crackback block for you football guys.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Do they define "come to rest" anywhere? Technically, I suspect the ball always comes to rest on any dribble, but I didn't take physics, so I could be wrong here.

Do we count seconds, or is this "I know it when I see it"?

I guess the *up-down* may stop, but I doubt that the lateral movement "always" stops.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Do they define "come to rest" anywhere? Technically, I suspect the ball always comes to rest on any dribble, but I didn't take physics, so I could be wrong here.

Do we count seconds, or is this "I know it when I see it"?

The velocity will often reach zero at the apex of a dribble, but it is instantaneous and we ignore it as long as the ball is being accelerated.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

The velocity will often reach zero at the apex of a dribble, but it is instantaneous and we ignore it as long as the ball is being accelerated.

There's our physics man!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

The velocity will often reach zero at the apex of a dribble, but it is instantaneous and we ignore it as long as the ball is being accelerated.

To Mick's point...vertical velocity will *always* be zero at the dribble apex instantaneously. It is rarely zero in the horizontal dimension.

Just sayin'

[Indianaref]

What about when a dribbler does a 360 degree spin move and continues his/her dribble? Would this be something we should call as palming?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

What about when a dribbler does a 360 degree spin move and continues his/her dribble? Would this be something we should call as palming?

Only if the ball comes to rest during the spin move. Palming was, is, and always will be a straight judgment call. If the ball comes to rest, that ends the dribble. If the player dribbles again, that's an illegal second dribble. The official on the spot has to make that decision.