Bounce pass to self

[Vinski]

I know that a player cannot pass the ball to themselves. For example, throw the ball over a defender and then run around the defender and catch it. But what about a bounce pass to their self. Sitch: A1 having possession of the ball who has not yet dribbled, bounce passes to A2. However, A2 did not see the bounce pass and continues to run down the court. A1 then realizing this, sprints after his pass that has now bounced 3 or 4 times and then grabs it. My instincts tell me that this was nothing more than a dribble. But, it was intended as a type of pass. Legal?

[todd66]

As long as the player has not already dribbled, both scenarios would be legal. I have always heard the first situation as an "air dribble"

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Vinski

I know that a player cannot pass the ball to themselves. For example, throw the ball over a defender and then run around the defender and catch it. But what about a bounce pass to their self. Sitch: A1 having possession of the ball who has not yet dribbled, bounce passes to A2. However, A2 did not see the bounce pass and continues to run down the court. A1 then realizing this, sprints after his pass that has now bounced 3 or 4 times and then grabs it. My instincts tell me that this was nothing more than a dribble. But, it was intended as a type of pass. Legal?

It's legal because it hit the floor. Since his dribble has not started, he can actually dribble after retrieving the ball.

Deleted bad advice.

[Back In The Saddle]

In your first scenario, if A1 has not already used his dribble, he can throw the ball over the defender, run around and catch the ball -- as long as he allows it to touch the floor first, thus turning a "self-pass" into a legal dribble. He can also continue that dribble normally.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

It's legal because it hit the floor. Since his dribble has not started, he can actually dribble after retrieving the ball. If he had dribble, then he would not be able to dribble again but he can still retrieve it.

Right.
Right.
Wrong. If the player had previously dribbled, he may not retrieve this pass until it's touched by another player. If the pass bounces, it's considered an illegal dribble. If it does not bounce, it's a travel.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by todd66

As long as the player has not already dribbled, both scenarios would be legal. I have always heard the first situation as an "air dribble"

Air dribble? That's a new one on me. Are you saying it's legal to throw/tip/push the ball into the air out and away from you and then run and catch the ball without it ever hitting the court? Isn't that an illegal dribble?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Vinski

Air dribble? That's a new one on me. Are you saying it's legal to throw/tip/push the ball into the air out and away from you and then run and catch the ball without it ever hitting the court? Isn't that an illegal dribble?

This is not legal. A dribble must hit the floor. This "air dribble" is just what it looks like: illegal. Call it a travel and head the other way.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wrong. If the player had previously dribbled, he may not retrieve this pass until it's touched by another player. If the pass bounces, it's considered an illegal dribble. If it does not bounce, it's a travel.

Almost Snaqs, if the player is dribbling, and bounce passes a pass to a teammate who doesn't see it. This player may retrieve this errant pass, even continue his dribble if he did not stop dribbling. He can grab the bounce pass and if he stops, he can not dribble again. In your case, if I'm understanding you correctly, if the dribbler stopped, then bounce pass, the ball needs to touch a player before he can retrieve it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Almost Snaqs, if the player is dribbling, and bounce passes a pass to a teammate who doesn't see it. This player may retrieve this errant pass, even continue his dribble if he did not stop dribbling. He can grab the bounce pass and if he stops, he can not dribble again. In your case, if I'm understanding you correctly, if the dribbler stopped, then bounce pass, the ball needs to touch a player before he can retrieve it.

The OP had the ball being thrown over a defender. He was either holding the ball or his dribble ended with the throw. If a dribbling player throws the ball upwards, the ball has to have come to rest in his hand. Retrieving the "pass" would still constitute a double (illegal) dribble unless another player has touched it.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Vinski

I know that a player cannot pass the ball to themselves. For example, throw the ball over a defender and then run around the defender and catch it. But what about a bounce pass to their self. Sitch: A1 having possession of the ball who has not yet dribbled, bounce passes to A2. However, A2 did not see the bounce pass and continues to run down the court. A1 then realizing this, sprints after his pass that has now bounced 3 or 4 times and then grabs it. My instincts tell me that this was nothing more than a dribble. But, it was intended as a type of pass. Legal?

Originally Posted by todd66

As long as the player has not already dribbled, both scenarios would be legal. I have always heard the first situation as an "air dribble"

You may want to consult the case book - specifically 4-15-4 Sitch E (b).

[rainmaker]

Okay I'm going to try to summarize the various possibilities. Let's discuss them by number, okay? Rather than starting nine different threads, or getting confused about who's addressing which sitch.

1. A1 is holding the ball. A1 has used his dribble. A1 can't do much of anything that involves letting go of the ball and then touching it again.

2. A1 is holding the ball. A1 hasn't used his dribble. A1 can toss the ball over B1's head, run around B1 and catch the ball in a hold (ie not re-release it). as long as he doesn't move his feet after he catches it.

3. A1 is holding the ball. A1 hasn't used his dribble. A1 can toss the ball over B1's head, round around B1, allow the ball to hit the floor, and then continue a dribble as long as the touch behind B1 doesn't involve a hold, but is only a dribble.

4. A1 is dribbling toward B1. A1 can give the ball a good hard push to the floor so that it bounces very high. A1 can then sort of bat it over B1's head, without holding, allow it to bounce behind B1, run around B1 and continue dribbling. (that is, if B1 is dull-witted enough to let the ball make it that far!).

5. A1 is dribbling toward B1. A1 can begin the same maneuver as in #4, allow the ball to bounce behind B1, and then catch the ball behind B1 provided A1 doesn't take any more steps after catching the ball.

6. A1 is dribbling toward B1. A1 can begin the same maneuver as in #4, but can not catch the ball after the bat but before the ball hits the floor behind B1. This would be an illegal dribble, right?

#2 is the only one I'm not sure about, but I can't figure out why or why not it would or wouldn't be legal?

[Adam]

Why is #2 legal?

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

#2 is the only one I'm not sure about, but I can't figure out why or why not it would or wouldn't be legal?

Case book says it is illegal.

see reference above.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why is #2 legal?

Yea, I know, but then, why isn't it?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Case book says it is illegal.

see reference above.

Thank you. I looked under 4.15.2 and there wasn't anything there, so I didn't look anywhere else. You are right. My #2 is illegal.