Bounce pass to self

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Maybe some day you'll learn to spell too.

you are so picky .

[mick]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, but I don't think of fumbling as something that someone does. It's something that happens to ya. I mean, you're not just standing there, and you just sort of fumble. I mean I do, but that's why I don't play. I was thinking of something planned and intentional.

Aw, I was just talking about "can't do much of anything that involves letting go of the ball and then touching it again".

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Coach,
These two case plays provide the answers to all of the questions posed.

In #1 A1 could fumble and retrieve as stated in 4.15.4 SitD part (d).
#2 is an illegal dribble per 4.15.4 Sit E part (b).
#3 since the ball is allowed to strike the floor, this is a legal dribble per 4-15-3 and the converse of the ruling in 4.15.4 Sit E part (b).
#4 is legal per the converse of 4.15.4 Sit D part (a) as the dribbler did not touch the ball twice before it struck the floor.
#5 is the same as number four, but, of course, the player is allowed to pivot after ending the dribble.
#6 illegal dribble per 4.15.4 Sit D part (a).

#1-- or A1 can attempt a try
#2 -- Hey, if A1 is in the backcourt and tosses the ball over B1's head and catches it in the backcourt, I agree. That is why I said previously "spirit and intent of the thread" as Juulie never mentioned backboard, rim, etc. But just wanted to point out a sitch exists (catching your own airball) where it is not considered an illegal dribble.

[just another ref]

One of the things we frequently hear from "knowledgeable" coaches and fans is:
"You can't pass it to yourself." This is true, but not for the reason that many think.

4-31: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats, or rolls the ball to another player.

The point is that when a player releases the ball, and then retrieves it himself, whether it is a legal play or not, by definition it is not a pass.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The OP had the ball being thrown over a defender. He was either holding the ball or his dribble ended with the throw.

How do you know that? You can not determine that with what the OP stated. What I stated that was deleted by the Mods was entirely correct, though they stated it wasn't. There are a lot of things in this game that you cannot say for sure and i was merely trying to point that out. When you consider the question can you pass the ball to yourself? The answer is yes and no, depending on the situation!

If a dribbling player throws the ball upwards, the ball has to have come to rest in his hand. Retrieving the "pass" would still constitute a double (illegal) dribble unless another player has touched it.

Retreiving the ball constitues an ILLEGAL Dribble, not a DOUBLE Dribble. Double dribbler is bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the same time or dribbling stop dribbling again. Learn the difference. Also, it is possible to throw the ball over the head of an opponent and retrieve it while dribbling. Have you ever heard of batting the ball upwards. Dribble has not ended.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

Retreiving the ball constitues an ILLEGAL Dribble, not a DOUBLE Dribble. Double dribbler is bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the same time or dribbling stop dribbling again. Learn the difference.

Hey, Old Drool. There is no violation in NF called "double" dribble. Dribbling violations are all referred to as "illegal" dribble. What's the point of "learning the difference" if there is only one call and one mechanic? The only exception is for a "carry", but technically that is still an "illegal" dribble.

BTW - speaking of rules, it's "i before e except after c", not "i before e except after retr".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Double dribbler is bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the same time or dribbling stop dribbling again. Learn the difference.

Can you cite where I may find the term "double dribble" in any rulebook?

Btw, is it illegal to bounce the ball with 2 hands?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Can you cite where I may find the term "double dribble" in any rulebook?

Btw, is it illegal to bounce the ball with 2 hands?

I'm going to say that you cannot bounce the ball with 2 hands at the exact same time, that is for official terms, an illegal dribble, Snaqs may call it a double (illegal) dribble, but in either case, it's a violation. Am I misinterpreting something here? Is this not an illegal dribble?

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm going to say that you cannot bounce the ball with 2 hands at the exact same time, that is for official terms, an illegal dribble, Snaqs may call it a double (illegal) dribble, but in either case, it's a violation. Am I misinterpreting something here? Is this not an illegal dribble?

Yes, you can.
Yes, you are.
No, it's not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The OP had the ball being thrown over a defender. He was either holding the ball or his dribble ended with the throw.

Originally Posted by Old School

How do you know that? You can not determine that with what the OP stated.

Actually, I can say it with about 99% certainty. In order to throw a ball, one must be holding it. A pass may in fact be a "bat" or a "tap," but the OP stated "throw." That means, from what I could read, he intended the passer to be holding the ball before it was released. If is holding the ball after he has dribbled, that dribble has ended.

Originally Posted by Old School

What I stated that was deleted by the Mods was entirely correct, though they stated it wasn't.

No, it was not correct.

Originally Posted by Old School

There are a lot of things in this game that you cannot say for sure and i was merely trying to point that out. When you consider the question can you pass the ball to yourself? The answer is yes and no, depending on the situation!

As has been stated, you cannot, by definition, pass to yourself, since a pass is a ball moved from one person to another. The original post asked if a player could throw the ball to himself, and it was later brought up whether this could be done after the dribble had been used. The answer to this question is emphatically "no."

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If a dribbling player throws the ball upwards, the ball has to have come to rest in his hand. Retrieving the "pass" would still constitute a double (illegal) dribble unless another player has touched it.

Originally Posted by Old School

Retreiving the ball constitues an ILLEGAL Dribble, not a DOUBLE Dribble.

Let me break down what I wrote for you. I used "double" because it's how most fans and coaches refer to it. I put the term "illegal" in parentheses because that's how the rules refer to it.

Originally Posted by Old School

Double dribbler is bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the same time or dribbling stop dribbling again.

Case in point. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Old School

Learn the difference. Also, it is possible to throw the ball over the head of an opponent and retrieve it while dribbling. Have you ever heard of batting the ball upwards. Dribble has not ended.

Throwing and batting are completely different things, even when their purpose is the same. For an illustration, see the rule break down on what can be done with .2 seconds on the clock. A dribbling player may bat the ball upwards without necessarily ending his dribble. Throwing it, however, is a dribble killer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm going to say that you cannot bounce the ball with 2 hands at the exact same time, that is for official terms, an illegal dribble, Snaqs may call it a double (illegal) dribble, but in either case, it's a violation. Am I misinterpreting something here? Is this not an illegal dribble?

It depends.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm going to say that you cannot bounce the ball with 2 hands at the exact same time, that is for official terms, an illegal dribble, Snaqs may call it a double (illegal) dribble, but in either case, it's a violation. Am I misinterpreting something here? Is this not an illegal dribble?

Coach P is right.

Bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the exact same time is NOT an illegal dribble and a violation. Nor has it ever been an illegal dribble and a violation in any ruleset- NFHS, NCAA or NBA.

It's just another case of your failure to understand the most basic of rules.

Touching the ball with both hands at the same time while dribbling legally ends a dribble. If you dribble again, it now becomes an illegal (second) dribble. Iow, it is legal to bounce the ball with 2 hands at the end of a dribble. It is illegal to touch the ball after that though unless it touches or is touched by another player first.

Of course, you also can always legally start a dribble by bouncing the ball with both hands and then legally continue to dribble.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Old School

Retreiving the ball constitues an ILLEGAL Dribble, not a DOUBLE Dribble. Double dribbler is bouncing the ball with 2 hands at the same time or dribbling stop dribbling again. Learn the difference. Also, it is possible to throw the ball over the head of an opponent and retrieve it while dribbling. Have you ever heard of batting the ball upwards. Dribble has not ended.

Please someone make him stop! My head hurts again.

[BillyMac]

From Jurassic Referee: " It is legal to bounce the ball with 2 hands at the end of a dribble. You also can always legally start a dribble by bouncing the ball with both hands."

Jurassic Referee's statement correctly describes a power dribble move often used by post players. Catch the ball with two hands with your back to the basket, start your dribble with two hands, moving at an angle toward the basket, after only one dribble, catch the ball with both hands, begin to take a step to the basket and make the layup.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From Jurassic Referee: " It is legal to bounce contact the ball with 2 hands at the end of a dribble. You also can always legally start a dribble by bouncing the ball with both hands."

Jurassic Referee's statement correctly describes a power dribble move often used by post players. Catch the ball with two hands with your back to the basket, start your dribble with two hands, moving at an angle toward the basket, after only one dribble, catch the ball with both hands, begin to take a step to the basket and make the layup.

Actually, I don't believe that the wording of the first part is correct. I would phrase it as I've amended.
As you state a power dribble is a legal move, but that is because the bouncing of the ball with both hands comes at the start of the dribble, not at the end of it. I can't think of any situation in which it would be legal to bounce the ball with two hands at the end of a dribble. The power dribble is the only action that gives this appearance because the dribble is terminated after the single bounce, but if a player has bounced the ball several times and has player control then the statement in question isn't true.