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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 03:03pm
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Question Philosophical discussion - should NF and NCAA rules be the same?

Is there really any reason to have different sets of rules for HS and college anymore? I know there's no compelling reason to have them the same except it would make it easier on officials who do both, fans who watch both and players moving from one to the other. Here's the only three reasons I've ever heard for having them different. I'm not saying I agree with these reasons, or that they're (IMO) valid anymore, just that these are the ones people usually state.

1) the talent level is so different you must have different rules to accommodate this

2) the more experienced officials at the college level are able to make calls that pertain to subtleties in the rules which HS officials can't handle, so you can't bring HS rules up to the college level and expect the HS game to be called properly

3) there are things allowed in the college game that many HS facilities could not support because of budget problems ( I have no idea what this means but I have heard it - is there some kind of a dunking difference?)

My questions are - first, is there an advantage to anyone to have the same set of rules at both levels: second, if so, should HS just adopt NCAA: third, are there still any valid reasons not to have them the same?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts everyone.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 04:42pm
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My two cents (from someone who has reffed high school, women's CC and men's CC).

Make the rules AND the mechanics the same at the HS and NCAA level for crying out loud.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 05:15pm
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20 years ago, the rules weren't really that different. Timing, of course, and a few others. Now, the NCAA committees have made a lot of changes in recent history and the codes are much more messed up in my view.

If HS is going to go NCAA, which code are they going -- men's or women's? And why? HS associations would end up editing either code anyway, so what's the point? Jr. Highs aren't going to play 20 minute halves.

I work football in Texas where we use NCAA rules, and I'd never want to work Fed rules for several reasons. It works well for us as the codes can be very different in some cases. In basketball, the different codes don't make the game change much.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 05:42pm
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I'd rather see the differences in rules be between women and men, than between high school and college. I don't see any real reason for the difference between the age levels, but I like the idea that baseball and softball are two different games, and one is the women's game and one is the men's game (until the men get old and soft!) Why not do the same in basketball?

But then, I haven't done much college (unless you define zero as "much"), so as a ref, I don't know that my opinion counts for much. But the differences seem so minor that I don't see why they're significant. Still, I suppose the differences in the game between high school freshman and the Final Four ought to count for something.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 06:24pm
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Smile

I agree that the men's and women's game should be the same more so than HS vs. NCAA.

As a middle school AD and HS official, I think that money plays a role in some rules. Shot clock being one. I don't think there is a need for it in HS. I can see this as a administrative nightmare that would effect the officials. One more thing to keep an eye on is not going to make the officiating better.

As an aside, I think 35 seconds is too short of time. When the rule came out it was 45 and I personally liked that better.

Rules regarding the lights on the backboards and such are also asking a lot. Some schools have them, but I would say it is around 5% of the schools that I have officiated.

These are the only ones I can think of where cost .would come in...unless you want the HS floor lengthened to 94 feet. I'm happy at 84 feet myself.

I'd like to rebounding take place on the release and not on the rim for FT's once again in HS.

Since I don't work college I can't say it matters to me. Having worked a few games involving college rules during the summer once in a while, I can see where one can make a mistake easily.

When it comes to baseball, I'd ban aluminum bats at all levels.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 06:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
I'd rather see the differences in rules be between women and men, than between high school and college. I don't see any real reason for the difference between the age levels, but I like the idea that baseball and softball are two different games, and one is the women's game and one is the men's game (until the men get old and soft!) Why not do the same in basketball?

But then, I haven't done much college (unless you define zero as "much"), so as a ref, I don't know that my opinion counts for much. But the differences seem so minor that I don't see why they're significant. Still, I suppose the differences in the game between high school freshman and the Final Four ought to count for something.

I agree 150% with you. To me, the game is different from men and women basketball. Yes, college is a lot faster, but the kids are bigger and stronger.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 07:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
I'd rather see the differences in rules be between women and men, than between high school and college.
Wow! Talk about blatant sexism!

Whatever happened to equal rights and all that stuff?

Sad day for all of those brave visionaries and pioneers who once burned their bras.......
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 07:38pm
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Originally Posted by budjones05
I agree 150% with you. To me, the game is different from men and women basketball. Yes, college is a lot faster, but the kids are bigger and stronger.
First of all, you can't agree 150%. 100% is the maximum.

I think what you are referring to is calling the game a little different based on the ability and strength of the players. I agree with that, but you can do that under the same set of rules.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 07:47pm
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Originally Posted by zebraman
First of all, you can't agree 150%. 100% is the maximum.
I agree 118%.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 07:52pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I agree 118%.
Go to your room.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 08:19pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I agree 118%.
As long as you guys don't start agreeing in metric percentages, I'm OK with it.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 08:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Wow! Talk about blatant sexism!

Whatever happened to equal rights and all that stuff?

Sad day for all of those brave visionaries and pioneers who once burned their bras.......
I see one smilie and one frownie. Are you serious or joking?
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 08:38pm
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I think (if I'm not mistaken) that NFHS and NCAA women's are very similar . . . or so I've been told. I think (again, if I'm not mistaken) that Mary Struckoff is over both - so that would make sense.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 08:52pm
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I see one smilie and one frownie. Are you serious or joking?
Yes.
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Old Sun Jul 29, 2007, 09:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
3) there are things allowed in the college game that many HS facilities could not support because of budget problems ( I have no idea what this means but I have heard it - is there some kind of a dunking difference?)
Well, NCAA rules require a 94' court. At some schools, it'd be expensive (if not impossible) to extend their court from 84'.

The usual complaint of increased cost is that of the shot clock. While they can run a few hundred to a thousand dollars each, it's a one-time cost.
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