Philosophical discussion - should NF and NCAA rules be the same?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Is there really any reason to have different sets of rules for HS and college anymore?

Why stop there? Why not adopt NBA rules for all levels? Or FIBA rules?

Honestly, I don't mind the different rule sets all that much. What I do dislike is the constant minor tinkering every year. Just leave the rules alone for a few years.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes.

yea, that's what I figured.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Well, NCAA rules require a 94' court. At some schools, it'd be expensive (if not impossible) to extend their court from 84'.

The usual complaint of increased cost is that of the shot clock. While they can run a few hundred to a thousand dollars each, it's a one-time cost.

I don't care about court length and shot clocks. What makes it a pain to go back and forth is the game rule and mechanics such as:

High school reporting. Preliminary signal. Then run to the spot and stop. One hand reporting. College reporting. No prelim signal unless a sell is needed. Walk and talk. Two hand reporting. In men's NCAA this coming year, go opposite the table instead of staying table side.

Block charge. Basket cannot count if airborne shooter fouls in NFHS or college women. In men, if the shooter fouls after the release, count the bucket.

Clock stops on any made basket in the last minute of the game of college. Not in NFHS.

Just minor differences like those that could easily be standardized at all levels.

BTW, I saw a men's NCAA rule bulletin that indicated that a defensive player CAN draw a charge even if he is set-up right under the hoop next year. Interested to hear more details on that one (and hear all the assignors then do their own interpretation of it).

[Texas Aggie]

I saw a men's NCAA rule bulletin that indicated that a defensive player CAN draw a charge even if he is set-up right under the hoop next year.

What made you think he couldn't?

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

What made you think he couldn't?

Do you mean besides the fact that it was listed as a rules change?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Do you mean besides the fact that it was listed as a rules change?

Nope, I think that he means the fact that it's listed as a 2007-08 Womens rule change only, Z. The NCAA Mens rule on LGP under the basket has always been the same as anywhere on the court.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The NCAA Mens rule on LGP under the basket has always been the same as anywhere on the court.

In theory, anyway. . .

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

In theory, anyway. . .

As is the case of every NCAA rule, n'est ce pas? Your point?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As is the case of every NCAA rule, n'est ce pas? Your point?

The PC under the basket is a little more theoretical than most, in that it exists only in theory.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Why stop there? Why not adopt...FIBA rules

Please - I just ate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I think (if I'm not mistaken) that NFHS and NCAA women's are very similar . . . or so I've been told. I think (again, if I'm not mistaken) that Mary Struckoff is over both - so that would make sense.

This would be completely wrong. For one thing the NCAA Women's game does not have a 10 second back court rule and the closely guarded rule does not at all reflect the NF rule. Let us not get into the way Ts are handled and other little interpretations.

I feel that all these levels need to stay different. For one thing, NCAA Men's and NCAA Women's are two different games. This is like comparing Baseball to Softball. The games style is played a little differently and the expectations of each game are different. I would not agree that all levels should be that similar. First of all let us understand the rules of basketball are really not that different anyway. The rules that are different are in many cases very minor and do not come up unless you have a usual situation. Also let us understand that each level has a different set of concerns that you will not see at another level. NCAA games have bigger, faster and stronger players on both sides of the isle. The NF game is about safety and simplicity. If you started adopting NCAA rules, you would confuse the average player or coach and you would not put into account that many players at the NF level are not as talented to do the things that NCAA rules were created for.

Keep the levels separate. I do not think many of us would like to see many NBA rules at the NF level. So why would we want NCAA rules (which are not the same between Men’s and Women’s) when some of those rules would only cause other problems we cannot yet imagine.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you started adopting NCAA rules, you would confuse the average player or coach

Rut - just curious - what NCAA rules do you feel would "confuse" the average HS player?

OK - coaches I can understand, especially when the rule involves counting higher than 10 without them taking their shoes off.

[Adam]

Would it be more convenient? No question. But, as stated, it's a philosophical question, which includes one's position on whether the two should have the same governing authority.

Any time you have two different organizations "in charge" (in this case, NCAA and NFHS), you're guaranteed to have different rules in place.

Some states have different organizations for boys and girls. Iowa, for example, has some rules variations between the two. No, comedians, I'm not talking about half-court girls basketball.

When I left the state, girls were just beginning to jump ball at the start of the game again. They moved the girls up a space on the free throw lane, keeping the bottom space open. The AP arrow always switched as soon as the thrower got the ball for the throw in. Girls coaches had the coaching box, boys coaches did not.

So, bottom line, I'm not comfortable putting the NFHS in charge of college ball, or the NCAA in charge of HS ball, or a third organization such as USA Basketball in charge of both for the sake of clearing up some minor inconveniences. Maybe it's just the federalist in me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

OK - coaches I can understand, especially when the rule involves counting higher than 10 without them taking their shoes off.

I thought that's what assistant coaches were for.

"Robin, come here, I need to use your fingers."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Rut - just curious - what NCAA rules do you feel would "confuse" the average HS player?

OK - coaches I can understand, especially when the rule involves counting higher than 10 without them taking their shoes off.

When I say a rule would confuse, if a coach does not understand the rule, the players will not understand that rule as well or know how to navigate through the game with a particular rule.

For example I believe that a shot clock is usually too taxing for the average player to navigate. Not to say that many players would not be OK with such a rule, but many players cannot run an offense properly and they have all the time in the world. The shot clock only adds to the anxiety for the average player.

Also understand that the T rule is very different at the college level. Men's and Women's sides do have differences, but I think the rule just brings confusion to those that have to apply it. The NF rule is clear and gives a clear punishment as opposed to the NCA rule which you can benefit from getting a T. And also remember before many of the rules we use today, the NCAA used them first.

Peace