The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 01:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Send a message via AIM to Back In The Saddle Send a message via MSN to Back In The Saddle Send a message via Yahoo to Back In The Saddle
Carrying a weak partner

I attended a church-sponsored officiating camp this week to help out with training church league referees. The mix of experience and abilities was very wide ranging. Some folks we encouraged to sign up for high school ball this year. Others...well I shudder at the mere thought of them stepping on any court anywhere. And I got to work with some of both.

As I have moved up the ranks, I find more often than not that I'm paired with weaker partners. So I have had ample opportunity to work on my "lead official" skills and learn to carry a weaker partner. Generally it goes pretty well. But this weekend was a very mixed bag. Frankly I was surprised at how badly a couple of my games went. Apparently I don't have all the tools in my bag that I need.

Which has me thinking: What do you think it takes to successfully carry a significantly weaker partner, especially in an ugly game?
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 04:27pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Lightbulb

I'm sure you realize there's no stock answer to your question. Some "weaker" partners can be very resentful of anything you try to do to help. Conversely, some are grateful for any help. I guess you just try to test them out at the beginning of the game the first time they don't perform up to par by diplomatically asking them about a call. Try not to "lecture" them, but try to phrase your help in the form of questions without being confrontational. Nod and say things like "I see" when they answer. Reply with suggestions in a friendly manner. Unless they're a real jerk (which, unfortunately, sometimes is the case) they probably will become more responsive as the game goes on. You know you've gotten through to them when they start to come to you for advice, however, if they tell you they don't want any, just accept that and do the best you can on your own.

Hope that helps at least a little. Just be patient and accept that you can't turn everyone around.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 08:56pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,842
Just ask Daryl Long how he handles having to carry a weak partner for game after game, year after year.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 10:13pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,590
Mark,

I think that was one of the best answers I have ever heard from you. No sarcasm and just plain dope about the topic. I am impressed my man, very impressed.

BITS,

Mark gave the best answer by far (I would not do any justice to add anything).

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 10:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 547
usually a weaker partner is just trying to "survive" the game by trying to get the calls right. he/she can't focus on all the "other stuff" (i.e. game management). that's where you have to step in and handle most, if not all, of those duties. take the pressure off of him or her by talking to/dealing with players, coaches, problem situations, etc. they are too busy officiating to notice lopsided foul counts, players who are becoming a problem, and controlling the benches.

you can't make every call for them (although you may have to "reach" a little now and then).
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 11:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
Which has me thinking: What do you think it takes to successfully carry a significantly weaker partner, especially in an ugly game?
Whatever you do, don't govonging.

That would be bad.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 11:30pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Whatever you do, don't govonging.

That would be bad.
Especially if your neighbors found out.......
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 08:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio, cincinnati
Posts: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
Apparently I don't have all the tools in my bag that I need.
Which has me thinking: What do you think it takes to successfully carry a significantly weaker partner, especially in an ugly game?
You can only do what you can do; offer help as far as coverage; philosophy; and management during a pre-game or at dead ball periods of the game.
Pretty early on you should find out if there is something to work with or if you just are going to tough it out. Then the best you can do is find some middle ground of trying to not let the game get out of hand and completely taking over the game. When it is ugly well it is ugly and all you can do is manage it.

Having been through a couple of camps already I have seen this several times this summer. I try to offer the "R" mentality with my partners and maintain both my composure and my primaries. I protect my partners integrity and use my communication and managment skills to try not to let it get out of hand.

In one particularly ugly contentset when it was clear that one of my partners where out of his league our observer told me afterward that he gave up on that ref and was watching what the other two did to manage the game with this weak partner. While we did have to whack both a player and a coach because of this guys calls we were able to cover a lot of what he did through managment and talking with both players and coaches.
Because of those "T's" almost all of the reaming when his way at the end of the game.
I think the only thing you can do is work on your managment skills in these sithuations.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 02:59pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea
they are too busy officiating to notice lopsided foul counts
What do you mean by this?
__________________
Yom HaShoah
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 03:00pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Mark,

I think that was one of the best answers I have ever heard from you. No sarcasm and just plain dope about the topic. I am impressed my man, very impressed.

BITS,

Mark gave the best answer by far (I would not do any justice to add anything).

Peace
Thanks, Rut. I guess the meds must finally be kicking in.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,674
All you can do is do everything the right way, be a great partner, communicate well at every opportunity, and pay close attention to all the game management issues.

When all that fails, extend as much as you can to keep the players safe, and get in, get done, get out.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 07:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
I do not like the term weak partner. It seems harsh. I view those individuals whom may not have fully developed their officiating as a working progress. We all were once viewed into this WEAK PARTNER manner when we first started.
__________________
truerookie
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 09:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by truerookie
I do not like the term weak partner. It seems harsh. I view those individuals whom may not have fully developed their officiating as a working progress. We all were once viewed into this WEAK PARTNER manner when we first started.
Rook-- I respectfully disagree. I would define someone who is just starting out as a "rookie" or a "beginner" or "in over his head". A "weak partner" is someone who probably should be able to handle this game, but just isn't making it, somehow.

There are plenty of those who are working hard and trying to get better, but they're just not there yet. They make plenty of mistakes, but it's a different kind of mistakes from the person who's been reffing for 5 or 6 years and still can't handle a 7th grade girls' game.

The rookie can be instructed and can be managed, he's coachable. The stronger partner can work with him, and help them both work together better. That weak partner is the one who inspired the phrase, "Get in, get done, get out".

Btw, I get the feeling you're a rookie, and not a weaker partner. But of course, I've never worked with you.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Rainmaker, I respectfully, respectfully do not wholeheartly agree with you. I am not trying to defend anyone I'm just stating that the term "weak partner" is too harsh of a term. In our own personal opinions, anyone could be classified as a "weak partner if they do not meet our expectations as officials. This is my point.

The rookie can be instructed and can be managed, he's coachable. The stronger partner can work with him, and help them both work together better. That weak partner is the one who inspired the phrase, "Get in, get done, get out".

I understand from your aformentioned statement that consistency is optimum when working with someone who needs more seasoning as an official. However, what about those officials whom been calling five or six years and all it's been is Rec Ball. How do we categorize them?

a) rookie
b) beginner
c) in over their head
d) weak partner

Finally, I like the parting shot you took. You have in your own personal opinion just categorize me as a rookie. Why do we have to put people in categories we do not know personally?

Btw, I get the feeling you're a rookie, and not a weaker partner. But of course, I've never worked with you.[/QUOTE]
__________________
truerookie
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 12, 2007, 08:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF
I think the only thing you can do is work on your managment skills in these sithuations.
This is so true. Also, communicate with players and coaches. Ask them to help you out because each official on the court has a different level of experience. You can't do this in the middle of the season, but try it at camp.
__________________
Luther
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carrying the bat to 1st CLBuffalo Softball 4 Thu Apr 27, 2006 03:58pm
Carrying bat blue2u Softball 15 Tue Jul 27, 2004 02:30pm
Weak TO Request / Violation Larks Basketball 4 Fri Dec 05, 2003 09:47pm
Very Weak on Strong Side rainmaker Basketball 36 Thu Nov 27, 2003 07:56pm
How do you handle a weak partner Roydavid Basketball 10 Mon Mar 03, 2003 02:37am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1