Coach and Player Confrontation

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Junker

Why worry about something that has nothing to do with your part of the game? Why worry about the poor kid being "abused"? It sounds to me like he wasn't being abused, he was being benched, which happens on occasion in the game of basketball. Maybe the kid needed to have his butt chewed.

The problem is everything is not abuse. If you get in someone's face you are being abusive. If you tell someone how you feel, it is abusive. If you use one foul word, it is abusive.

There are several generations that were literally knocked up side the head and they did not go around and shoot up a school.

If anything this just shows the fundamental problem in our society. Parents and adults would rather be friends with children than being the bad guy or gal and disciplining children. If that means you have to raise your voice then do so. My God Alec Baldwin is being roasted for getting upset with his child, who he takes care of BTW. I wish that was the only thing my parents said to me when they got angry and I did a lot less.

I know most will not agree with me, but I could never imagine myself even getting upset over this confrontation. It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap. We really need to stop treating kids today as if they are so innocent. There are kids his age that have committed capital crimes and we are afraid to hurt their feelings during an extra-curricular activity?

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know most will not agree with me, but I could never imagine myself even getting upset over this confrontation. It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap. We really need to stop treating kids today as if they are so innocent. There are kids his age that have committed capital crimes and we are afraid to hurt their feelings during an extra-curricular activity?

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more, Jeff. Well put.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more, Jeff. Well put.

Uhh yeah what that guy said!

[rockyroad]

In the original situation, why not just hit the whistle, turn toward the bench and loudly say "Is there a problem here?" at which point player and coach would both have sheepishly sat down and stfu...if they didn't, then move on to whacking and tossing...it ain't rocket science.

[mick]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

In the original situation, why not just hit the whistle, turn toward the bench and loudly say "Is there a problem here?" at which point player and coach would both have sheepishly sat down and stfu...if they didn't, then move on to whacking and tossing...it ain't rocket science.

See? Like I said. Good post.
If it happens yer ready.

[mick]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap.

Interesting, Rut.
I got locked in on the Coach who sounded like a spoiled brat, although, a hunert years ago, when my coach yelled or hit us with a clipboard, I don't remember "yelling back" as even being an option.

[M&M Guy]

Rut,

I may not agree with the teams you root for, but I agree with what you said.

You may be older than you let on...

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are several generations that were literally knocked up side the head and they did not go around and shoot up a school.

If anything this just shows the fundamental problem in our society. Parents and adults would rather be friends with children than being the bad guy or gal and disciplining children.

I know most will not agree with me, but I could never imagine myself even getting upset over this confrontation. It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap.

I don't know if this problem relates to babies having babies, today's choice of drug(s), the video games or the liberalist. But this generation sure as hell aren't built like we were! I'm a 70s baby & sure there were problem children back then too, but we weren't as horrid as today's generation... were we

[Junker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The problem is everything is not abuse. If you get in someone's face you are being abusive. If you tell someone how you feel, it is abusive. If you use one foul word, it is abusive.

There are several generations that were literally knocked up side the head and they did not go around and shoot up a school.

If anything this just shows the fundamental problem in our society. Parents and adults would rather be friends with children than being the bad guy or gal and disciplining children. If that means you have to raise your voice then do so. My God Alec Baldwin is being roasted for getting upset with his child, who he takes care of BTW. I wish that was the only thing my parents said to me when they got angry and I did a lot less.

I know most will not agree with me, but I could never imagine myself even getting upset over this confrontation. It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap. We really need to stop treating kids today as if they are so innocent. There are kids his age that have committed capital crimes and we are afraid to hurt their feelings during an extra-curricular activity?

Peace

Well said. I actually tried writing a similar post, but would have gone on for 3 pages so I opted for what I wrote.

[Adam]

You have no idea what these kids are going through or how tough they are; their coach is far more qualified to make that judgment than an official who sees them for about an hour. I can tell you the easiest way to become a former official is to start telling a coach how to do his job. Then, suddenly, you're coaching a 5th grade AAU team yelling at the refs and telling them you should know because you used to ref varsity ball.

These coaches are responsible to enough people; we don't need to get involved. If for no other reason, it detracts from our appearance of objectivity. We can't afford that loss.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

These coaches are responsible to enough people; we don't need to get involved. If for no other reason, it detracts from our appearance of objectivity. We can't afford that loss.

Snaqwells,
Somehow singling out and yelling at a kid in front of God and everyone else still doesn't feel like the reponsible direction of an alleged adult.
By ignoring that, are we not condoning the distraction?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The problem is everything is not abuse. If you get in someone's face you are being abusive. If you tell someone how you feel, it is abusive. If you use one foul word, it is abusive.

There are several generations that were literally knocked up side the head and they did not go around and shoot up a school.

If anything this just shows the fundamental problem in our society. Parents and adults would rather be friends with children than being the bad guy or gal and disciplining children. If that means you have to raise your voice then do so. My God Alec Baldwin is being roasted for getting upset with his child, who he takes care of BTW. I wish that was the only thing my parents said to me when they got angry and I did a lot less.

I know most will not agree with me, but I could never imagine myself even getting upset over this confrontation. It sounded like a little spoiled brat not being able to play a game and someone not putting up with his crap. We really need to stop treating kids today as if they are so innocent. There are kids his age that have committed capital crimes and we are afraid to hurt their feelings during an extra-curricular activity?

Peace

JRut, I understand your position here but it is the opposite extreme of what we are talking about. This tread is not about kids needing more discipline in there life or kids needing to toughen up.

The case I bought up with the child crying on the court. We’re talking kids still in grade school. The coach who was black wanted the white player who was taller than all the other kids in his age group to toughen up and play like a man. The kid was giving it his all, so much so, he was crying right there on the court. Damn near the whole game. My question to all of you is, when did you all lose site of kids just being kids? You have become the Roman society. When did bb become so damn important that kids now have to be adults before puberty sets in. Do you know that you will spend the majority of your life as an adult? How about we let kids be kids during those precious years where they don’t have a care in the world, instead of enforcing our selfish motives to win a bb game so they must grow up right now and get tough. I bet there was a lot of other places that kid would have rather been then running up and down that court crying. In fact, that type of abuse (and yes, I believe it is abusive to treat a kid this way) may turn this kid off to bb forever. That is the part that I speak about when I say it’s a sad state of affairs in this industry.

Last, did you know that bully’s, kids that abuse other kids, are kids that are abused themselves. Did you know that? Where does this abuse start or come from? Could it be from being forced to do something they don’t want to do. I’m all for disciplining kids in a proper and respectful manner and there will be tough ramifications if you do something wrong, however....!

However valid your argument is JRut, it missed the boat here. You shot an airball, but it looked good.

[Texref]

Originally Posted by Old School

JRut, I understand your position here but it is the opposite extreme of what we are talking about. This tread is not about kids needing more discipline in there life or kids needing to toughen up.

The case I bought up with the child crying on the court. We’re talking kids still in grade school. The coach who was black wanted the white player who was taller than all the other kids in his age group to toughen up and play like a man. The kid was giving it his all, so much so, he was crying right there on the court. Damn near the whole game. My question to all of you is, when did you all lose site of kids just being kids? You have become the Roman society. When did bb become so damn important that kids now have to be adults before puberty sets in. Do you know that you will spend the majority of your life as an adult? How about we let kids be kids during those precious years where they don’t have a care in the world, instead of enforcing our selfish motives to win a bb game so they must grow up right now and get tough. I bet there was a lot of other places that kid would have rather been then running up and down that court crying. In fact, that type of abuse (and yes, I believe it is abusive to treat a kid this way) may turn this kid off to bb forever. That is the part that I speak about when I say it’s a sad state of affairs in this industry.

Last, did you know that bully’s, kids that abuse other kids, or kids that are abused themselves. Did you know that? Where does this abuse start or come from? Could it be from being forced to do something they don’t want to do. I’m all for disciplining kids in a proper and respectful manner and there will be tough ramifications if you do something wrong. However valid your argument is JRut, it missed the boat here. You shot an airball, but it looked good.

Unless this is your child, since when is a U17 player still in grade school? U17's are usually sophomores or juniors in high school. My 2cents, that is an issue between the coach and the player. The parents let/chose this coach to coach their child. It's no different than the players that go play for Coach Knight. I personally wouldn't want/let my child play for a coach like that, but there are plenty of parents who would. What would you do if this was a Texas Tech/ K-State (although Huggins isn't there anymore) and they started to yell at a player and made that player cry? That player may only be 18-19 years old. All in all, I think you handled this about the way that I would have.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

JRut, I understand your position here but it is the opposite extreme of what we are talking about. This tread is not about kids needing more discipline in there life or kids needing to toughen up.

The case I bought up with the child crying on the court. We’re talking kids still in grade school. The coach who was black wanted the white player who was taller than all the other kids in his age group to toughen up and play like a man. The kid was giving it his all, so much so, he was crying right there on the court. Damn near the whole game. My question to all of you is, when did you all lose site of kids just being kids? You have become the Roman society. When did bb become so damn important that kids now have to be adults before puberty sets in. Do you know that you will spend the majority of your life as an adult? How about we let kids be kids during those precious years where they don’t have a care in the world, instead of enforcing our selfish motives to win a bb game so they must grow up right now and get tough. I bet there was a lot of other places that kid would have rather been then running up and down that court crying. In fact, that type of abuse (and yes, I believe it is abusive to treat a kid this way) may turn this kid off to bb forever. That is the part that I speak about when I say it’s a sad state of affairs in this industry.

Crying does not mean anything. I have seen kids cry over committing a turnover. Also we give kids a trophy for just participating. When I was a kid you had to actually win something to get an award. I learned that you have to work hard and be exceptional. Sorry, I do not find it abusive for an adult to take them out of a game and when the kid pouts, and then the adult confronts them (as it appears it happen in your story). Also remember you asked for opinions and when we give it to you, you want to challenge it. Why did you come here in the first place if you did not want to accept opinions?

Originally Posted by Old School

Last, did you know that bully’s, kids that abuse other kids, are kids that are abused themselves. Did you know that? Where does this abuse start or come from? Could it be from being forced to do something they don’t want to do. I’m all for disciplining kids in a proper and respectful manner and there will be tough ramifications if you do something wrong, however....!

I had bullies too when I was a kid. I punched one in the mouth and they left me alone. I did not run to my parents or other adults to handle my business. Not to say that works today as well, but at some point kids have to learn to deal with adversity. I was the only Black kid in an entire school and I had some issues to deal with and I survived and became very strong for it. Kids today have someone call them a name the world is coming to an end.

Originally Posted by Old School

However valid your argument is JRut, it missed the boat here. You shot an airball, but it looked good.

First of all I did not come here asking for your opinion. You are the one having trouble figuring out what to do. I know what I would do and it would not be what you suggested. I feel adults have the right to displine kids and sometimes yell at them. Remember you said the kid had to be restrained. If the kid is reacting like that, then they do not need to play sports.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Crying does not mean anything. I have seen kids cry over committing a turnover. Also we give kids a trophy for just participating. When I was a kid you had to actually win something to get an award. I learned that you have to work hard and be exceptional. Sorry, I do not find it abusive for an adult to take them out of a game and when the kid pouts, and then the adult confronts them (as it appears it happen in your story). Also remember you asked for opinions and when we give it to you, you want to challenge it. Why did you come here in the first place if you did not want to accept opinions?

My apologies for sending the message I am challenging your opinion. I am trying to steer the discussion in another direction then you are heading, although I do value your opinion and position on this issue. Please don't be offended when I tell you, you are living out of the past. There are a lot of things that happen yesterday that are no longer valid today. For instance, gang violence is wosre today then it was when I was in school.

I had bullies too when I was a kid. I punched one in the mouth and they left me alone. I did not run to my parents or other adults to handle my business. Not to say that works today as well, but at some point kids have to learn to deal with adversity. I was the only Black kid in an entire school and I had some issues to deal with and I survived and became very strong for it. Kids today have someone call them a name the world is coming to an end.

Don't you think you are scretching it a little bit when you say the world is coming to an end if someone calls a kid a name. Can we at least keep the conversation to what's real and not what's hyperbole To your point about the bullies. What you did way back when, might get you killed today, if you think a fight is over after one successful punch. Again, I would like to keep the conversation to the 20th century if you don't mind.

First of all I did not come here asking for your opinion. You are the one having trouble figuring out what to do. I know what I would do and it would not be what you suggested. I feel adults have the right to displine kids and sometimes yell at them. Remember you said the kid had to be restrained. If the kid is reacting like that, then they do not need to play sports.

Once again, you are lost in space and appears to be the one with the problem here. You are having the hardest time discussing it. It's okay that you would handle it differently. I also agree with you that coaches should be able to disciplhine there players, to a certain extinct. The problem that I have with you is that you are living out of yesterday. In the here and now, coaches go to the extreme, and so do some parents, and it is that extreme that I am discussing, that you can't seem to get your arm's around. You keep wanting to talk about something else, when there is a very real, a very valid problem out there with adults (coaches) crossing the line too.

Continue on talking about your point of view and what you think this is all about. Even though it is a different discussion, there is much to learn there too.