Confrontation opinions

[jhughe90]

I was just going through the Coach asks catcher thread and saw this statement -The problem here was that the PU was very confrontational and everybody in the ball park heard him "admonish" the coach. I don't think that this is the way to handle it.- which goes along the lines on why I showed up here today.

Had an incident the other night where the umpire (through 1 1/2 good solid games with friendly chatter) in my opinion snapped and confronted the left fielder inappropriately.

I won't debate the call at 3rd except to say that a majority of the field was heading to the dugout before the call was realized.

General disagreement with calls in leagues in our area is normal and regular as long as long as it isn't vulgar and is dropped. Many take a lot more abuse than that and let it go.

The comment in this case was "that's awful", and barely audible at the plate. The umpire proceeded to walk into the field to the SS area and confront the LF, literally daring him with a "How awful was it?" to say anything else and be ejected. More belittling followed..."It's your mouth that's awful". I felt it was grossly uncalled for and took most of the enjoyment out of the rest of the game.

Thoughts? I've been stewing on it for 48 hours now. I realize that are likely no rules that cover such situations, but umpiring guidelines would certainly not recommend that.


Jeff

[JEL]

Well,...It takes two to Tango!....

The way you have it reported, seems to me the PU may have been out of line, but maybe not. Is this really the whole story though? "Through 1 1/2 good solid games with friendly chatter", are you sure ALL was good chatter? This may have been the culmination of some "not-so-good chatter".

From a personal standpoint, I try and give some lattitude to comments, I realize some calls will not be popular, or agreed with. When the line is crossed, then I will take action, and my line may be longer, or shorter than others.

"Thats awful" This I have heard before, and I don't like it, but can overlook it most times. There have been a couple of times when that was said that I knew yes, that was awful (meaning my call). When verbal attacks become more than opinions, that is when I take notice.

Quit stewing and move on. (easily said isn't it?)

[jhughe90]

I was behind the plate that 2nd game, no arguments or disagreements. It was friendly chatter about the game, hitting trends, player errors and blunders. There was definitely no buildup of bad vibes.

A warning is fine if it upset him that much...but confronting a player in that manner is definitely out of the question.

I love 'stew'ing...especially in fall weather. Once I get it out for someone to hear I should calm down.

[whiskers_ump]

Welcome to the board jhughe90

Another computer man...

No disrespect meant.

enjoy

glen

[TexBlue]

I agree with JEL. The nature of the responsibilities of the umpire is to make decisions, interpret rules, enforce the rules and administer them fairly. That will always involve some disagreement on your decision. If you are listening to the players,coaches or fans, it doesn't seem like you are committing 100% to the game.

My goal as an umpire is for the 2 teams not be able to remember who called the gaem a few days later. Doesn't always happen, but that's what I try for. I don't believe I have ever carried bad feelings on to the field or let any event during the game affect any call I make. I am more than willing to talk to anyone, as long as "talking " is what is happening. If my voice gets loud, or the other persons' gets loud, the talking is over.

As far as comments from anyone, that's part of the game. As long as it doesn't affect the game, let it go. It should never become personal, I don't believe.

At least, that's the way I think.

Rick

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by jhughe90

I was just going through the Coach asks catcher thread and saw this statement -The problem here was that the PU was very confrontational and everybody in the ball park heard him "admonish" the coach. I don't think that this is the way to handle it.- which goes along the lines on why I showed up here today.

Well, you know, sometimes what others hear for the 1st time isn't the 1st words of an on-going banter. Depending on the situation, there just may be times where it is necessary to publicly dress-down a coach. I don't believe it is always the way to handle a situation, but unless involved it's hard to pass absolute judgment on this one.

Had an incident the other night where the umpire (through 1 1/2 good solid games with friendly chatter) in my opinion snapped and confronted the left fielder inappropriately.

I won't debate the call at 3rd except to say that a majority of the field was heading to the dugout before the call was realized.

General disagreement with calls in leagues in our area is normal and regular as long as long as it isn't vulgar and is dropped. Many take a lot more abuse than that and let it go.

The comment in this case was "that's awful", and barely audible at the plate. The umpire proceeded to walk into the field to the SS area and confront the LF, literally daring him with a "How awful was it?" to say anything else and be ejected. More belittling followed..."It's your mouth that's awful". I felt it was grossly uncalled for and took most of the enjoyment out of the rest of the game.

Thoughts? I've been stewing on it for 48 hours now. I realize that are likely no rules that cover such situations, but umpiring guidelines would certainly not recommend that.

Barely audible at the plate from the outfield may have been quite audible to many others, but then again, we all know how great the view is from the outfield compared to 10-20' from the play

I agree, this was not the way to handle it. I had the same thing happen to me last June in Plant City. Player complained about the PU all the way from right field. I'm BU and am already bored with his diatribe. Still running at the mouth after the next play, I decided I've heard enough, but I didn't say a word to the player. I called the manager out of the dugout. I told him that I had heard enough and the options were to quiet the player or replace him. Manager thanked me and told the player to "shut up" or sit down. Didn't hear a word from that player the remainder of the game.

I think that umpires tend to not want to hear outfielders whine about plays since they are so remote compared to infielders.

I don't approve of the manner the umpire handled the situation, but we really don't know what else that umpire had been hearing either. That's not excusing it, just thinking what could have caused it.

[CecilOne]

Outfielders only exist when they make a catch.

[jhughe90]

Heh, the way most D leagues are played that I've seen, the outfielders make or break the team from a defensive standpoint!

Actually the F7 in question and short had the best view of the play, contrary to another comment blue made. It was a toss from him to F5 and the tag was made on the runner's back from behind. The throw definitely beat the runner, the only question is when the tag was made which unfortunately was a tough call, myself and him having about the poorest view of it IMO.

I know, one would think there was more to it, but I tell ya there wasn't, that's why it was such a shocker to both teams. Part of it may also be the baseball side of me, where such a thing would land him in hot water. Different worlds...

Being new, I have to ask is the Fx notation an online thing or is that how it's always referred to from an officials' perspective?


Jeff

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by jhughe90

Actually the F7 in question and short had the best view of the play, contrary to another comment blue made. It was a toss from him to F5 and the tag was made on the runner's back from behind. The throw definitely beat the runner, the only question is when the tag was made which unfortunately was a tough call, myself and him having about the poorest view of it IMO.

Jeff

Though there is still no excuse for acting like an idiot on either side, you are now saying that you two were so far out of position that an outfielder had a better view of the play than two umpires in the infield?

With all due respect, Jeff, this doesn't reflect very well on you and your partner's mechanics.

[jhughe90]

"I was behind the plate that 2nd game"
- Sorry let me rephrase...I was F2.

Yes the outfielder was about as close as the PU and had a better angle due to the tag being made from behind.

Going solo a lot of times things like a missed tag at 2nd can't be seen from back at the plate, so you have to make the call based on the timing of the throw.



[Edited by jhughe90 on Oct 4th, 2003 at 05:04 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by jhughe90
"I was behind the plate that 2nd game"
- Sorry let me rephrase...I was F2.

Yes the outfielder was about as close as the PU and had a better angle due to the tag being made from behind.

Going solo a lot of times things like a missed tag at 2nd can't be seen from back at the plate, so you have to make the call based on the timing of the throw.

[Edited by jhughe90 on Oct 4th, 2003 at 05:04 PM]

Then let me rephrase...If the umpire was behind the plate while there was a play at 3B, he was out of position. And I don't think anyone on this board would argue that maybe he deserved a little bit of heat in that case.

You are correct in stating that things will be missed in a one-umpire game, but other than balls, strikes and a call at the plate, no call should be made from behind the plate.

I hustle when I work. I may miss a few, but at least I'm there to miss them and that will cause teams to give the umpire a little more slack than that offered to those who never move from behind the plate.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I tend to agree here with Jel, but jhughe made a valid point. Why did the BU go over to the dugout and confront the LF? Probably just to throw his weight around, to show 'em whose boss. STUPID! He should have swallowed the comment and husted over to his between innings postion.

[MD Longhorn]

I try to make a point of not talking to ANY player, with the occasional non-confrontational exceptions of the batter, pitcher, and catcher. If there's anything confrontational to be said, or if any player needs to have his mouth taped, that conversation is between me and the manager (or a handy coach). Period. I don't care what the LF said - the PU had no business confronting him. If he had issue, he should have spoken with the manager.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

I hustle when I work. I may miss a few, but at least I'm there to miss them and that will cause teams to give the umpire a little more slack than that offered to those who never move from behind the plate.

[/QUOTE]

Ummm...isn't that what we are all getting paid to do? Hustle I mean? Part of what we are drawing that "big check" for is to be in position to make the call, not to mention knowing what to call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Skahtboi

I hustle when I work. I may miss a few, but at least I'm there to miss them and that will cause teams to give the umpire a little more slack than that offered to those who never move from behind the plate.

Ummm...isn't that what we are all getting paid to do? Hustle I mean? Part of what we are drawing that "big check" for is to be in position to make the call, not to mention knowing what to call. [/QUOTE]

That's what I always thought, and then I go out and see some umpires who must have a 5-10 foot leash attached to their ankle 'cause they ain't doing too much moving